Jump to content

Pitch and yaw on gazelle is "rolling over"


AtomMrav

Recommended Posts

The pitch and yaw input appears to slowly but almost unstoppably roll over and run away and only very hard corrections in the other direction can stop it. For example banking a bit, keeps adding input until it "runs away" unless stopped by input in the other direction.

I have read documentation, axes setup guides and i can't solve this problem. I have reinstalled my hotas drivers, calibrated everything, reinstalled Gazelle module, and it is still the same. I have tested with all other aircrafts and helicopters and everything works fine except gazelle.

FFB option is turned off. Curves are set to 20.

 

I am playing on DCS 2.5. I had the same problem on DCS 1.5.

 

Please guys, can someone help me with this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh. I've always had this behavior with the Gazelle, so I figured it was just the way the flight model/SAS system works; I shelved the module because of it.

 

If it is a bug that can be fixed, I'd love to be able to give it a second chance.

 

I'm using an MSFFB2 with FFB on(the trim was completely unusable last time I checked as well). Curves are untouched.


Edited by Pfeil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's just the way the Gazelle feels (in DCS, anyways).

 

I also greatly dislike the need for "counter cyclic" all the time, and it's one of the reasons I haven't touched it in a while. It doesn't feel right at all.

Intel 9600K@4.9GHz, Asus Z390, 32GB DDR4, EVGA RTX 3070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 1TB NVMe

34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" Touch Screen MFD monitor, TIR5

My Pit Build, VKB Gunfighter Pro w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals, Cougar MFDs, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that gazelle is one of trickiest helicopters to fly, and for me that is one big challenge. I can accept that.

I don't think that the flight model is wrong, because, my friend is not experiencing the same problem. For him, everything works as it should be.

So, I assume that there is something that we can do with settings...

Also, i tried to disable magnetos switch, and when i do that, my joystick input behaves like i pushing trim buttons.

Example: I push my stick forward and nose starts going down, and when i release my stick, nose stays down, at 5 degrees for example.

I have checked my controls, tried to clear all HOTAS inputs, and always the same.

 

I hope so that this problem is solvable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't noticed the rolling unless I m making inputs to the collective, but the pitching....ugh right?

 

What I have found is that if I excessively click the trim while maintaining level flight it eventually will set and the thing will fly straight. Not ideal, but it works. I also make sure to deselect/reset my trim before making any control input from there as the in game helicopter does some really weird sh*t if I don't. Actually, I pretty much treat it as an autopilot lol.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have G940 (FFB off or on for even more extra wildness) and it was like that since the beginning for me. That's why it didn't convinced me as a solid FM.

 

Its true I gave up long ago and didn't tested it after last patches.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this problem, try to disable the force feedback in the miscellaneous page of settings. This should fix that :-)

 

I already did it. That fixed problem with inverted trim set.

I'm out of ideas what could it be. I can fly, but it doesn't feel natural.

I really like to fly with gazelle, but this is so annoying.

 

If my HOTAS is broken or if it is driver issue, i would have problem with all planes and helicopters that I play with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be great to have someone with experience answer this question.

 

There seems to be a number of parameters modelled. The roll induced by collective action at relative air speed may be due to blow back (blow forward) condition on the main rotor. Also transverse flow effect will induce a roll effect depending on speed.

 

That said I'm not sure how accurately well it's modelled in the Gazelle and I need to allow for the effect(s) when changing collective input when avoiding contact with the ground otherwise I would flip it, which doesn't end well. :D


Edited by FragBum
<edit>

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it´s frustrating for you when I make the following statement:

 

I fly the Gazelle in 2.5 (and before) with my Warthog Hotas & throttle without issues. X and Y axis on my stick are without any curve, BUT I figured that they need a 3% deadzone each on my system. Same for my Saitek rudders (calibratin did not solve the issue, it´s my hardware). After applying that I am able to fly the bird WITHOUT any input from the stick straight on in normal flight conditions. Almost like with autopilot. If there´s wind in the mission of course you have to compensate for drift.

 

As I stated in one of my earlier posts I had a long conversation with actual EC 135 pilots about the fenestron and they confirmed that the huge fenestron will compensate almost all need for input while in normal forward flight. Another story is the effect of the fenestron in steep turns...or if you drop the collective too aggressive (but just wait for the BO105 and you´ll surprised like hell how fast you can kill yourself in a turn - btw the mentioned EC135 guys all hat 10000+ hrs on Bo105 PAH German Army)

 

I use the "sim mode " (not the arcade/easy one) and have no swithces flipped off concerning the SAS.

 

She´s such a joy in 2.5 as light attack helicopter - after a long time of training you can throw her around like a charm - I promise

 

So...now....I fly her as described....am I the only one who has no issues? Certainly not. Is it then a "problem" of the PFM (as someone doubts that the Gazelle has one - and quite accurate to my opinion). No - for sure it is not.

 

Gentlemen, I am a little bit tired to read posts that simply blame the devs for something not beeing right. Start FIRST searching on your side, then blame others (if you wish) or better start a conversation or ask.. But that seems to be the way of communication in the web nowadays. Or maybe I am too old for such kind of "conversation" - who knows.

 

Anyways again: I HAVE NO ISSUES - believe it or not.

 

Happy flying

 

Willy

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]my rig specs: i7-4790K CPU 4.50GHz, 32GB RAM, 64bit WIN10, NVidia GeForce GTX 980 Ti, SSD+

 

A10C, UH-1H, M2C, F5E, Gazelle, KA 50, F18C, DCS 2.5x OB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it´s frustrating for you when I make the following statement:

 

I fly the Gazelle in 2.5 (and before) with my Warthog Hotas & throttle without issues. X and Y axis on my stick are without any curve, BUT I figured that they need a 3% deadzone each on my system. Same for my Saitek rudders (calibratin did not solve the issue, it´s my hardware). After applying that I am able to fly the bird WITHOUT any input from the stick straight on in normal flight conditions. Almost like with autopilot. If there´s wind in the mission of course you have to compensate for drift.

 

As I stated in one of my earlier posts I had a long conversation with actual EC 135 pilots about the fenestron and they confirmed that the huge fenestron will compensate almost all need for input while in normal forward flight. Another story is the effect of the fenestron in steep turns...or if you drop the collective too aggressive (but just wait for the BO105 and you´ll surprised like hell how fast you can kill yourself in a turn - btw the mentioned EC135 guys all hat 10000+ hrs on Bo105 PAH German Army)

 

I use the "sim mode " (not the arcade/easy one) and have no swithces flipped off concerning the SAS.

 

 

 

She´s such a joy in 2.5 as light attack helicopter - after a long time of training you can throw her around like a charm - I promise

 

So...now....I fly her as described....am I the only one who has no issues? Certainly not. Is it then a "problem" of the PFM (as someone doubts that the Gazelle has one - and quite accurate to my opinion). No - for sure it is not.

 

Gentlemen, I am a little bit tired to read posts that simply blame the devs for something not beeing right. Start FIRST searching on your side, then blame others (if you wish) or better start a conversation or ask.. But that seems to be the way of communication in the web nowadays. Or maybe I am too old for such kind of "conversation" - who knows.

 

Anyways again: I HAVE NO ISSUES - believe it or not.

 

Happy flying

 

Willy

 

 

MMMM maybe although I think I need better input devices. :D

 

 

I mostly fly with AP system off, it's AWESOME FUN and very responsive. :pilotfly: ;)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it´s frustrating for you when I make the following statement:

 

I fly the Gazelle in 2.5 (and before) with my Warthog Hotas & throttle without issues. X and Y axis on my stick are without any curve, BUT I figured that they need a 3% deadzone each on my system. Same for my Saitek rudders (calibratin did not solve the issue, it´s my hardware). After applying that I am able to fly the bird WITHOUT any input from the stick straight on in normal flight conditions. Almost like with autopilot. If there´s wind in the mission of course you have to compensate for drift.

 

As I stated in one of my earlier posts I had a long conversation with actual EC 135 pilots about the fenestron and they confirmed that the huge fenestron will compensate almost all need for input while in normal forward flight. Another story is the effect of the fenestron in steep turns...or if you drop the collective too aggressive (but just wait for the BO105 and you´ll surprised like hell how fast you can kill yourself in a turn - btw the mentioned EC135 guys all hat 10000+ hrs on Bo105 PAH German Army)

 

I use the "sim mode " (not the arcade/easy one) and have no swithces flipped off concerning the SAS.

 

She´s such a joy in 2.5 as light attack helicopter - after a long time of training you can throw her around like a charm - I promise

 

So...now....I fly her as described....am I the only one who has no issues? Certainly not. Is it then a "problem" of the PFM (as someone doubts that the Gazelle has one - and quite accurate to my opinion). No - for sure it is not.

 

Gentlemen, I am a little bit tired to read posts that simply blame the devs for something not beeing right. Start FIRST searching on your side, then blame others (if you wish) or better start a conversation or ask.. But that seems to be the way of communication in the web nowadays. Or maybe I am too old for such kind of "conversation" - who knows.

 

Anyways again: I HAVE NO ISSUES - believe it or not.

 

Happy flying

 

Willy

 

I have never blamed for devs. Read my posts and you'll see. I'm searching for solution on my side. I know that I am making mistake somewhere, and I asked for help, and not to read essays how good pilot you are.

If you know how to solve our problem, share the solution. If you don't, stay quiet and enjoy in your perfectly working sim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed it feels quite weird.

 

If you set the trim you can achieve very stable flight with ease (so that the very jittery TV is able to maintain a target instead of shaking all over the place and preventing slewing) but if you try to achieve the same on your own you spend all that time feathering the joystick back and forth with little joy.

 

Maybe I oughta try disabling the AP to prevent it from trying to level out or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine the world where people actually read forum posts, and where people actually try to help each other.

I have had much different opinion about this community. I thought that there is no trolls on this forum. I thought that you are friendly, and that you are trying to solve problems together. But I was wrong.

Many thanks to people that actually tried to help, tried to suggest a solution. You are great people, and for you I wish all the best.

And for rest of you, bunch of trolls that only know to make fun of others and their problems... One day you will be in same situation, and then some troll will make fun of you and your problem.

Eventually, I'll solve my problem, and I will enjoy flying gazelle, and I will make it work as it should.

Now, feel free to delete all my posts, and this thread.

I'm highly disappointed in this community and the way their members treat others. Certainly i will not search for help here anymore.

Once again, big THANK YOU for those who tried and suggested any solution.

I wish you clear skies.


Edited by AtomMrav
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AtomMrav,

 

sorry that you got my post wrong...maybe a language barrier between us two (I am no native english speaker as well). You rage kept you from reading my full post I guess:

 

1. I never meant you beacause you were ASKING for help and did not blame the Devs, right?

2. I posted my personal solution to the twitches I experienced with the Gazelle

3. My opinion on what is going on in internet forums, and even here

 

The people not having issues with the Gazelle have the SAME piece of software bought from Polychop as all those having problems, right?

so my conclusion: it is not the FM, it´s on client side (set-up, hardware, joystick) as it was with my "issues" in the past.

 

BTW: if you follow the discussion in "game performance" section concerning 2.5. you´ll get what I mean....it´s always developpers bug and never a problem with system specs or set-up :-))))

 

Have a fine weeekend

 

Willy (aka Troll? :-))


Edited by docWilly

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]my rig specs: i7-4790K CPU 4.50GHz, 32GB RAM, 64bit WIN10, NVidia GeForce GTX 980 Ti, SSD+

 

A10C, UH-1H, M2C, F5E, Gazelle, KA 50, F18C, DCS 2.5x OB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This issue has always plagued the Gazelle for me. And like the OP, it was very difficult to correct movement while flying without overcompensation. So yes! I get it.

I have used the X52, X55, and CH pro setup with the Gazelle and this issue still pops up. So if it's hardware......I don't have a clue as to which setup would work. My dendancy is to believe that it's the FM. I have played endlessly with the settings and found no solution. I mentioned it on the forums when it first came out and a whole bunch of "real world Gazelle pilots" came out of the woodwork telling me that it's a sensitive bird and that it was correct.

In the end, I just got use to it. I fly it OK but not great, and learned how to compensate gently. Much as I like the chopper itself, I don't think that this issue is natural for any aircraft. And in my opinion, it is the FM.

As is with all DCS FM's, there are quirks and issues. I do not believe that any of them no matter how well done are true to their real life counterparts. I don't concern myself with what I believe should be real any more. You cannot expect that from anyone. So, I just learn how to adjust to what I'm presented with. I can't complain, DCS is the best sim out there. No other sim has come close to what ED has done.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed it feels quite weird.

 

If you set the trim you can achieve very stable flight with ease (so that the very jittery TV is able to maintain a target instead of shaking all over the place and preventing slewing) but if you try to achieve the same on your own you spend all that time feathering the joystick back and forth with little joy.

 

Maybe I oughta try disabling the AP to prevent it from trying to level out or something.

 

 

Sephyrius, please at least try a 3-4% deadzone on x and y axis on your stick, to be set ingame! I am with that able to fly it hands-off without AP but SAS channels on

 

 


Edited by docWilly

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]my rig specs: i7-4790K CPU 4.50GHz, 32GB RAM, 64bit WIN10, NVidia GeForce GTX 980 Ti, SSD+

 

A10C, UH-1H, M2C, F5E, Gazelle, KA 50, F18C, DCS 2.5x OB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed it feels quite weird.

 

If you set the trim you can achieve very stable flight with ease (so that the very jittery TV is able to maintain a target instead of shaking all over the place and preventing slewing) but if you try to achieve the same on your own you spend all that time feathering the joystick back and forth with little joy.

 

Maybe I oughta try disabling the AP to prevent it from trying to level out or something.

 

 

If it's too hard for you to maintain a stable flight, you can add a saturation on your cyclic's axies. (Y Saturation) Like 90%, or 75%. Or you can buy a extension to your joystick (7cm or 10 cm).

 

You should will win in precision.

 

Kayou

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zimmerdylan

 

I totally agree with you.

I use Saitek X55 and it works perfectly for me with other aircraft. I have problem only with gazelle.

I will try my best to fix this. If I find any solution, I'll share it.

 

@docWilly

 

Probably is that. Sorry for my overreacting. I'm just tired of bunch of pr**ks on forums.

Once again, sorry if I have insulted you.


Edited by AtomMrav
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sephyrius, please at least try a 3-4% deadzone on x and y axis on your stick, to be set ingame! I am with that able to fly it hands-off without AP but SAS channels on

 

 

 

If it's too hard for you to maintain a stable flight, you can add a saturation on your cyclic's axies. (Y Saturation) Like 90%, or 75%. Or you can buy a extension to your joystick (7cm or 10 cm).

 

You should will win in precision.

 

Kayou

 

I'll try to elaborate. Running a Sidewinder FFB2 with a ~10cm extension, and have already made use of deadzones and 70% saturation in the past (sadly any such changes break the FFB for the trim which helps a fair bit though it's not the end of the world since it does aircraft attitude trimming instead of stick trim).

Cheers for the suggestions, but I'm not having an issue with the precision itself.

 

The "feathering" issue I'm having is that if, say, I tilt the joystick 5' and hold it there to maintain stable flight at that attitude, the airframe either piles on and keeps pitching down, or wobbles back and forth, or even pitches up to fly level again.

Even to figure out if I was in any way moving the stick myself, I bound the cyclic pitch to a throttle slider and left it in place - same thing.

 

All I'm hoping to achieve is stable turns to be able to guide the Viviane reliably, which is an ordeal when I have to constantly feather the cyclic back and forth just to achieve a semblance of stable forward flight.

Same with roll, constant feathering required to achieve a nice stable turn.

 

Just not a fan of the crutches it induces. Level flight? Okay, works fine if you let go of the stick and let it do its thing. Stable flight at other angles? Rely on the force trim. Stable camera while approaching? Either force trim for easy stable flight or rely entirely on moving the camera and using its "auto-locking" because doing it manually is virtually impossible.

 

Wasn't a fan of the KA50 because of its heavy reliance on the autopilot systems, and even caught myself causing a whole lot of PIO when flying the Huey because I was used to having to constantly compensate with the cyclic back and forth just for stable forward flight and turning.

 

If the Gazelle is just a different beast and this is how it works, then okay, that's fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an X-55 also with 5 units in deadzone on both pitch and roll and for me is quite precise and controlable. No curves.

 

I´m very smooth moving the stick, avoiding large displacements and triming with both the main trim and the hat trim. No problems so far.

" You must think in russian.."

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´

 

Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "feathering" issue I'm having is that if, say, I tilt the joystick 5' and hold it there to maintain stable flight at that attitude, the airframe either piles on and keeps pitching down, or wobbles back and forth, or even pitches up to fly level again.

 

I have exactly the same problem. And I am out of ideas how to solve it.:noexpression:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the main rotor seems to lack gyroscopic precision.

 

its gyroscopic precision that allows us to cruise and turn smoothly in the other helicopters.

 

and its the lack of gyroscopic precision that feels so wrong in the gazelle.

 

a gyroscope wont fall over because i nudge it one way...

try it with a spinning top.

but the gazelle will

 

5 degrees nose down nudge and she will fall over

My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...