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Old 01-07-2019, 03:33 PM   #1
birdstrike
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Default question about the stickforces

talking about the stickforces a lot with my friends lately and reading through several former threads, i would like to get enlightend as to how the stickforces are programmed...which logic they follow if you so want to speak.

i know that Yo-Yo said repeatedly, that our dcs pilot can pull a certain amount of force...

but is that with 1 hand? and 1hand only all times?

or is that with 2 hands? and both hands at all times?

or is it a combination and the pilot begins to use his 2nd hand to push or pull harder after a certain threshold is reached?
if the latter is the case, what is the logic behind it? when does our pilot start to use the 2nd hand?and when does he decide to switch back to 1hand again? and how long does it take him to use the 2nd hand again once we pull our stick again harder back? i would really like to know this!

Last edited by birdstrike; 01-07-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdstrike View Post
talking about the stickforces a lot with my friends lately and reading through several former threads, i would like to get enlightend as to how the stickforces are programmed...which logic they follow if you so want to speak.

i know that Yo-Yo said repeatedly, that our dcs pilot can pull a certain amount of force...

but is that with 1 hand? and 1hand only all times?

or is that with 2 hands? and both hands at all times?

or is it a combination and the pilot begins to use his 2nd hand to push or pull harder after a certain threshold is reached?
if the latter is the case, what is the logic behind it? when does our pilot start to use the 2nd hand?and when does he decide to switch back to 1hand again? and how long does it take him to use the 2nd hand again once we pull our stick again harder back? i would really like to know this!
For me, this is the biggest enigma of this simulation.. I still call it a simulation..
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:24 PM   #3
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Yeah, it was better when stick forces weren't implemented and people complained all the time because they broke wings in every turn .


I preferred it though as I use a long stick and I could manage it on my own, but not the case for everybody.



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Old 01-07-2019, 04:32 PM   #4
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It has nothing to do with how long your real life stick is.. The stick in the game moves slowly and the plane doesn't respond to your stick movements. It's a whole different story..
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:02 PM   #5
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It has nothing to do with how long your real life stick is.
Well, turns out it does if you are unable to control yourself without that stick forces simulation. Overcontrol is not only a thing in RL, in simulations happens all of the time. Setting aside realism (and geekism) questions, a long stick is way easier controlled and it was so obvious as I never broke a wing in the times people did all of the time.


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Old 01-07-2019, 05:13 PM   #6
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You certainly don't understand the issue here.. just let an ED representative to answer birdstrike's questions.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:40 PM   #7
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if anything it is way too conservative...
but that being said, what I find strange is that only ww2 birds have this "simulated"... i.e. I have no problem pulling 40lb (max deflection) in F18, while in 109 even half that is already a big problem for a pilot.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:31 PM   #8
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if anything it is way too conservative...
but that being said, what I find strange is that only ww2 birds have this "simulated"... i.e. I have no problem pulling 40lb (max deflection) in F18, while in 109 even half that is already a big problem for a pilot.
Aircraft with hydraulically boosted controls have simulated stick force/feel in the real airplane and it would be sorta silly to limit the pilot by simulating stick forces that high.

There are several problems with trying to simulate the pilot's exertions. Where do you get the data?

If they are using the standard 30 lbs of force data the US typically used in WWII era flight test, that is far too low.

Current un-boosted controls can be certified with control forces as high as 77 lbs during go around maneuvers. I have personally flow a civilian jet certified under these rules.

There is a big difference between what an average man can exert with one hand in normal flight and what he can do with both hands with the adrenaline pumping.

80 lbs is nothing when your life depends on it.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:11 AM   #9
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What they should have done is give us the ability to turn that off in the special options menu of the BF-109. Problem solved...
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:15 AM   #10
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pmiceli, the 40lb is not a made up number as silly as it might sound to you.


As for data... there are studies publicly available which have sampled data where one can see for each type of control what can be considered acceptable avg.
However that being said, I agree with your assertion that when * hit the fan, all these fly thru the window...

Personally, I would not bother simulating pilot stamina the way we have now, as having lag in controls introduces PIO and makes everything even less "realistic"
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