F-14 low speed prowess vs Other Aircraft - Page 43 - ED Forums
 


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Old 10-17-2016, 05:13 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
You don't. At least you don't maintain them. You load your turn and bleed until you pass the point at which your bird recovers its energy the best and then unload, until you are at the other side of the curve again. Thus your turns are a mix of loaded and unloaded cycles. You use your time during the unloaded cycle to recover some of that blood back into your brain. Some blackout is bound to occur but it will depend largely on the altitude you are fighting at, your AC bleed and recover rates and your timing. So even though your g may peek at over 8.5 or 9 at times, you still spend a good deal of time bellow 5.5 or 6. The average turning rate will still be better then the best sustained. Sometimes as much as 2-3 seconds better. This is all of a tail chase scenario though. If you go nose to nose, one circle, then bleed away..... i try to avoid those against Hornets and Flankers though....

P.S. Sorry for the late reply. I am seldom online these days.

P.P.S. Experiment with your bird. If you don't have the full Ps charts for the plane you fly with, try and using your acceleration rates as a rough indicator for your best energy recovery envelope range (though this won't take into the account the induced drag from the alpha buildup).
No problem, thank your for your reply.

Yeah it seams an interesting technique, specially the average turning rate being better then the sustained.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:10 PM   #422
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Yep, surviving through the merge and the initial couple of circles is half the work. You need to avoid scissors at all cost. Work the vertical, but not in a way that will telegraph your intent. Wait until you are bellow his horizon before you make that move. But keep your energy up as long as possible. Most importantly, keep it where you can regain it.
Interesting how you say avoid scissors ... I hear rolling scissors being used

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Old 10-19-2016, 10:22 PM   #423
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quite a big difference between rolling scissors and flat scissors.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:39 AM   #424
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What he said! ^^
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:02 AM   #425
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quite a big difference between rolling scissors and flat scissors.
He didn't define.. rolleyes

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Old 12-16-2016, 02:47 PM   #426
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He didn't define.. rolleyes

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Eh, usually when someone mentions scissors, they meant the regular flat kind....not the vertical one, not the rolling one....unless you are the screen writer for Dogfights, in which case whenever you say rolling scissors, you actually mean the flat kind

But if any clarification is needed.....yeah, i meant the flat kind
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:57 AM   #427
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To give you guys an idea of what to expect here's a little graphical comparison based on the official EM charts:


Last edited by Hummingbird; 01-10-2018 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:06 AM   #428
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I take it those are the "best" figures for STR for each airframe?

Why don't you also post a diagram showing STR's for all three where the height and speed is the constant (ie, SL @ M.05, SL @ M0.9, 5k @ M0.8 etc...)?

That's likely to be of more use, because if you're up against a decent F-15 driver, they're going to try and keep in their sweet spot for speed and turn.

Last edited by Buzzles; 01-10-2018 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:02 AM   #429
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I hope that the F-14's prowess in low speed turning will be modelled by leatherneck.

Could do a full 360 min radius turn in under 20 sec at sea level, setting the record at Abbotsford in 1986.



The F-14 might have had a slow roll, but it would turn & burn better than most.
I was there that day. Wish the F-14 were still there. Some of the Blue Angels were out there today checking it out for the airshow this summer.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:33 AM   #430
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I take it those are the "best" figures for STR for each airframe?
Yes, best STR for each airframe at 10 kft and the resulting radius to give an idea of the scale. (I made sure that scale of the circle was kept accurate/representative of the actual calculated radius)

Quote:
Why don't you also post a diagram showing STR's for all three where the height and speed is the constant (ie, SL @ M.05, SL @ M0.9, 5k @ M0.8 etc...)?

That's likely to be of more use, because if you're up against a decent F-15 driver, they're going to try and keep in their sweet spot for speed and turn.
Oh I posted the whole lot earlier in this thread, just go back. However many people aren't able to convert all the numbers to an actual picture in their head. The above illustration was an attempt to help with tha
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