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Old 10-14-2018, 02:31 PM   #1
DeepDrummer
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Default Control Profile Request to DEVs

Could we slip an "Off" and "ON" option in addition to the current "toggle" binding for the "Guns Safety Lever".
Of secondary importance, Could we slip an "Off" and "ON" option in addition to the current "toggle" binding for the "Fuel Tank Pressure".
In this time frame when control profiles are being changed, I think it's a good time to put this contentious issue to rest. Offs and Ons Please. I beg of you.
I am not running the beta at present so I have no idea whether this is being contemplated or accomplished as of yet.

My profile is so perfect and the Spits are wonderful other than those other 2 actual flaws.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:36 PM   #2
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Cams appear to be turned by the tang in the bottom cam protruding. This turns the cams which lines up the pins on them to enter into the buttons allowing them to travel inward and activate the trigger. When the cams are in the right position the buttons will not go in and the button can be pushed into place.

The button simply holds the cams from lining up.
It is not spring loaded or momentary.

The bottom cam can be turned in both directions to allow locking and unlocking of the safe button.
I am thinking the cam pops the button back up in one direction by a cam type action and opens the slot for the button to be pushed in effectively misaligning the pins and button holes and keeping the guns "safe". The cams are spring loaded back to center and the bottom one controls the top one for the button purposes and to line up the pins with the holes in the buttons.

Critical no. Conjecture. Yes. It sounds good if you say it fast.

My point is I should be able to "feel" that button up and it should be reliably guns free and safe when down. You can't "feel" a momentary spring loaded button but I can "feel" an off and on switch. Since ramp starts, runway starts and air starts begin with a default with different gun safe. I think a runway start should be guns safe but it defaults to guns free.

Regardless, I promise to do my pre-fights better so I can toggle things back proper but I get a little grumpy when I forget. it's all my bad. Carry on.
https://smnzone-scalemodellingno.net...ing-button.jpg
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Old 10-21-2018, 12:36 PM   #3
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Of course we already should know this from the manual. Pic attached. Note where the arrow for # 5 is pointing.

Now that we have decided that people can update their DCS profiles manually instead of being forced to do so, can we ensure we are advised which modules have changed and when as they are posted?

If I took the profile now, it would wipe my own with no changes to the available key bindings. No?

That should be enough official confirmation that it is modelled wrong. I patiently await notice of the new Spitfire Key Binding availability to repair that one contentious switch. (and the one that comes on with the throttle needs a method other than mouse to shut it off). I will shut up now. I have done my part.
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:34 PM   #4
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Many control-objects (the things you can bind to your controller's switches/keyboard keys) have per default only toggles to bind. They are basically setup for binding with keyboard key presses.

Most however can be modded for either an On/Off switch on your controller, or separate On and Off buttons. For the Spitfire these are defined in

'..\DCS\Mods\aircraft\SpitfireLFMkIX\Input\SpitfireLFMkIX\joystick\default.lua'

and per default for the Gun Safety Switch look like this:

{ down = device_commands.Button_2, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.safety'), category = _('Stick')},

.

This can be modded in 2 ways.
1.
{ down = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Gun Safety Switch On'), category = _('Stick')},
{ down = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 0.0, name = _('Gun Safety Switch Off'), category = _('Stick')},

2.
{ down = device_commands.Button_1, up = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 0.0, value_up = 1.0, name = _('Gun Safety Switch On/Off'), category = _('Stick')},

You will note that the 'device_command.Button' was changed to '1' from '2'. This was discovered through experience from other aircraft and testing.

In Case 1. only 'value_down' is used. 'value_down' refers to the state of the button/switch/key being in the asserted (pressed) state. If your were to bind this control to a key on your keyboard, when pressing and holding that key, the Gun Safety Switch would be set to Off. If you then released the key, the Gun Safety Switch would be set to On. So using these control-objects only make sense if your are binding to two buttons on your controller; one for On and one for Off.

In Case 2. I've combined these controls, by adding 'value_up', which refers to the un-asserted state of a switch. If you bind this control to a switch on your controller, it will allow you to use the switch for toggling the Gun Safety Switch On and Off.

Understanding controller switches:
Controller switches work like light switches. When you flick them in one direction, they complete an electronic circuit; in the other direction and they break an electronic circuit. This plays a significant role in how you must configure controller-switches in DCS, for DCS ONLY reads open circuits (switches in their 'Off' state), if the switch is bound to a control-object with 'value_up' defined.

In this description, we will assume your controller-switch is bound to the default control-object, and the Gun Safety Switch in the cockpit is set to On (you cannot fire guns or canons - safety is on).

When you flick the controller-switch to the asserted (closed circuit) position, DCS would toggle the Gun Safety Switch to Off and you can fire guns and canons. If you then flick the controller-switch to the un-asserted position, nothing will change, bc DCS has no definition for what to do with the switch in the un-asserted state. If you then flick the switch a third time (again to the asserted position) DCS will toggle the Gun Safety Switch to On again, and you cannot fire guns and canons.

Now lets bind your controller-switch to the Case 2. controller-object, and have the controller-switch start in the un-asserted state. When you flick your controller switch, the Gun Safety Switch gets turn off and you can fire. When you flick your controller-switch to the un-asserted state, the Gun Safety Switch gets turn on and you cannot fire.

Note: in the default control-object definition we see that the object name is 'Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.safety', but you will not find this in your control settings. This is because the Spitfire uses a text database for defining these text strings. In my modified objects I have used fixed texts to overcome this. These fixed texts will appear as in these modded objects in your control settings.

That's the whole magic behind controls and settings. If you have any questions, feel free to ask away.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:55 AM   #5
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Thanks Captain for your consideration.
I am using Thrustmaster Target. Assigning on and off are as simple as a drag and drop.

I could probably do that in parallel and allow DCS to control the actions of one switch but it would be with reluctance for sure. Things can get out of hand for me that way.
Would that be yet another thing I would have to redo every time there is an update?

All I am asking is for a factory stock keybind to turn the gunsight on and off.
Maybe ED can paste your code into theirs and assign a key to it..
It could even be a hidden keybind (there are enough of those anyway).
I completely refuse to edit the code of the company who received my money in order to make a non functioning simulated switch operate properly.

ED edits the code to accommodate a key press which turns this item on and a different key press (not a toggle) to turn it off and then advise what that key press is.
I then dial that keypress into my target script as in the pic attached.

If they could find it in their heart to supply a key press for the switch on their throttle to turn it off, that would be the icing on the cake.

I keep reading that if they have definitive proof of something, they will act on it.
The proof is there. Act on it.
I will give your idea a go.
This is quite stressful.
Can you imagine? I have to change lines in their code. Unbelievable.
Thanks Captain. When my heart rate comes back down, I'll take another look.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #6
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We won't talk about the fuel tank pressure on and off. *sigh*
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:51 AM   #7
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Here is what it is stock:
-- Gun Sight Master Switch
{ down = device_commands.Button_18, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_master_1'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{ down = device_commands.Button_18, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 0.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_master_0'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{ down = device_commands.Button_19, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_master'), category = _('Gunsight')},

I'll mess with button 19 I guess.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:52 AM   #8
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I think Orso follows the "help yourself..." motto and so do I.
I have made many additions to the default.lua's of the various aircraft because I have been flying most of them from their beginnings and over the years I've come to the conclusion that this is not a priority for ED, or they don't have the resources to do it, or both.
I used to solve the issue mostly with TARGET as long as I used the TMWH stick, but I TARGET does not work with my VPC stick and DSD button box. So I do it in default.lua. And there are cases where you have to do it in default.lua because there are no separate ON an OFF command options in the stock file and you have to use info from clickabledata.lua to synthesize a new command.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:55 AM   #9
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[QUOTE... I'll mess with button 19 I guess.[/QUOTE]
This is my code for the gun sight master:
Code:
{down = device_commands.Button_18, up = device_commands.Button_18, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Gun Sight Master 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Gunsight')},
and these are my other additions for the Spit:
Code:
{down = device_commands.Button_9, up = device_commands.Button_9, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 0.0, value_up = 1.0, name = _('Mixture Control 2-Pos. IDLE CUTOFF/RUN'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_33, up = device_commands.Button_33, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Radiator Flap 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = device_commands.Button_35, up = device_commands.Button_35, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Pitot Heating 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = device_commands.Button_43, up = device_commands.Button_43, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Fuel Pump 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_45, up = device_commands.Button_45, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Carburator Air Control 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_37, up = device_commands.Button_37, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Main Fuel Cock 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_7, up = device_commands.Button_7, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Nav. Lights 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Front Dash')},
{down = device_commands.Button_15, up = device_commands.Button_15, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Magneto 1 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_17, up = device_commands.Button_17, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Magneto 2 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Engine Controls')},
{down = device_commands.Button_33, up = device_commands.Button_33, cockpit_device_id = devices.ENGINE_CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Tank Pressurizer 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Systems')},
 {down = device_commands.Button_16, up = device_commands.Button_16, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Gun Sight Tint Screen 2-Pos. ON/OFF'), category = _('Gunsight')},
The command "Mixture Control 2-Pos. IDLE CUTOFF/RUN" works with the cut-off switch in the WH throttle.
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Last edited by LeCuvier; 10-22-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:58 AM   #10
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ok wrong section. I'll probably end up with the prop on the tail. Working....
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