The perennial question. How to improve Maverick hit rate?

I'm trying to understand the AGM-65D with the A-10C. I've tried various approaches, descending from 8,000, 6,000, and 4,000 feet, and I've started firing at the four marked targets at 7 and 4 miles, but whatever approach I take I achieve a hit ratio of 25-50%.

You can see in the video below that I'm only hitting the last target in this example. I'm probably making a simple mistake, but I can't think what it is. Or are they just that innacurate? Any help would be appreciated.

The complete attack from marking targets to execution:

Alpha fired at 7.0 miles, 2760 feet:

Bravo fired at 5.9 miles, 2600 feet:

Charlie fired at 4.8 miles, 2340 feet:

Delta fired at 3.8 miles, 2040 feet:

I'm trying to understand the AGM-65D with the A-10C. I've tried various approaches, descending from 8,000, 6,000, and 4,000 feet, and I've started firing at the four marked targets at 7 and 4 miles, but whatever approach I take I achieve a hit ratio of 25-50%.

 

You can see in the video below that I'm only hitting the last target in this example. I'm probably making a simple mistake, but I can't think what it is. Or are they just that innacurate? Any help would be appreciated.

 

The complete attack from marking targets to execution:

 

Alpha fired at 7.0 miles, 2760 feet:

?t=189

 

Bravo fired at 5.9 miles, 2600 feet:

?t=201

 

Charlie fired at 4.8 miles, 2340 feet:

?t=215

 

Delta fired at 3.8 miles, 2040 feet:

?t=227

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Mis-selected private for unlisted. Apologies.

Mis-selected private for unlisted. Apologies.

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I would be surprised if using D's was the problem. The infrared profile is pretty distinct with nothing to really present a false positive. The temperature is also 20C on the caucasus map.

I tried the same exercise with the H's. I couldn't get a lock on the first target until less than five miles, and even then on two passes I missed the first shot on a Shilka but hit the three T72s.

The first shot always goes long, whether I'm using the D's or the H's.

Also on subsequent tests no hit on the Shilka at four miles, but a hit at three.

I'm probably making a simple mistake, but I can't think what it is. Or are they just that inaccurate? Any help would be appreciated.

It looks like the AGM-65D's are simply locking onto the wrong object (perhaps a tree or telegraph pole).

You could:

• increase the angular separation between objects by attacking from a higher angle i.e. a 20° Ramp starting at 14,000 ft / 7 NM

• test a different attack vector

• test similar targets in a empty field

... you may find object clutter forces you to change tactics/weapons (IRL it'd be temperature gradients, etc.).

If you look at the TGP mark point setup, all four vehicles are in the open, I'm placing the mark point close to the target, and I'm locking on the mark point position. I don't think the Mavericks can be locking onto any other heat source. I have the impression from testing that the Mavericks want the range below 4 miles regardless of whether they are D or H models.

You're not putting your TGP in POINT mode or lasing before setting your mark points? See what happens if you do those things before setting mark points. I'm close to 100% kill rate with the Ds, so there's not a problem with the missiles. That's with hitting armor and vehicles from anywhere between 500 and 16,000 AGL. Could you maybe post a track so we can go along for the ride and see if maybe we can spot what's going on? I also noticed that each of your shots seem to be lofting upward like they should, instead of to the side like what has happened in a few of the previous updates which borked the seeker orientation on the horizontal rails.

Seems clear to me that the gates aren't closing around the desired target, but rather something in the fore/background. A solid lock will have the target object right in the center. On top of that, the locked gates are jumping around erratically - not sure what that might indicate?

If you look at the TGP mark point setup, all four vehicles are in the open, I'm placing the mark point close to the target, and I'm locking on the mark point position. I don't think the Mavericks can be locking onto any other heat source.

The most likely alternative target the AGM-65D would track is one of the overhead line masts that run alongside the railway track.

It looks like the AGM-65D's are simply locking onto the wrong object (perhaps a tree or telegraph pole).

Agreed. In the vid, we can see the Mav tracking gate for the first target jump a bit.

It seems to be an obnoxious habit of the current DCS version to favor lamp poles over MBTs for tracking weapons like the Maverick.

@supanova, have you examined the flight with TacView? A track recording might show what actually happens in more detail.

The mark point is using the coordinates, so the mode shouldn't matter.

I put up an external view of three of the four missiles. I can't seem to get the timing right to record all four:

I will try some more experiments and report back later.

Hoping this means a Maverick Training video for the A10C on the channel soon Supernova!

The mark point is using the coordinates, so the mode shouldn't matter.

 

I put up an external view of three of the four missiles. I can't seem to get the timing right to record all four:

 

I will try some more experiments and report back later.

If you post a track so we can go along for the ride, we might be able to determine if the TGP mode matters or not. But, when you get the TGP to automatically lock a target by putting it in POINT mode, and then use the laser for range-finding before setting the markpoint, you'll get a more accurate set of coordinates. The effort you're putting into this is awesome, but we can only see so much detail in the videos. A track that lets us go along with you in that exact scenario might help us see if you're doing something wrong, or if there's something buggy going on.

I moved the targets in front of the track, with a 100% hit rate.

I would suggest that Yurgon is correct. The telegraph poles are distracting the Mavericks.

I also tried locking up and lasing the targets before setting the mark points, but that still gives me about a 50% hit rate.

The mission files are attached.

sn_exercise_a10_mavs.miz

sn_exercise_a10_mavs_FIX.miz

Hoping this means a Maverick Training video for the A10C on the channel soon Supernova!

I do hope I have enough understanding of them to do that now. ;)

I also tried locking up and lasing the targets before setting the mark points, but that still gives me about a 50% hit rate.

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I moved the targets in front of the track, with a 100% hit rate.

 

I would suggest that Yurgon is correct. The telegraph poles are distracting the Mavericks.

 

I also tried locking up and lasing the targets before setting the mark points, but that still gives me about a 50% hit rate.

 

The mission files are attached.

Cool! Thanks for those mission files. :pilotfly:

Just flew both missions with a 100% kill rate. I had to change the loadout on the second one though, you had just 2 Ks loaded for some reason. :smilewink: Tried doing the mark point method first. I made 4 passes, just so I could eyeball each Maverick to see if it hit. 100% kill rate. Then I ran it again using the TGP to designate the left-most target, followed by using quick-draw and the MAV seekers alone. Single pass, 100% kill rate visually verified with a low-level pass.

Watched your video in the first post again, and it looks like your targets at C and D weren't locked by the MAV seeker. The MAV had something else nearby locked, because the cross was slightly off-center. I had the same thing caused by the wires, so I just slewed off-target and came back in to get a good lock on the target. The funny thing about the visual pass was that the MAV impact had set the wire on fire at all 4 targets, but the targets were all destroyed as well.

The second attack method is usually what I use when attacking in the lower altitude realm. Mark points down there just eat up extra time. I'll use mark points usually when SAM threats in the area force me to higher altitudes (around 16,000 AGL). They just make it easier from those altitudes to make sure I'm on the correct targets.