IFV Sniping Jets

Haven't tested it myself, but Indeed BMP-2 should not be more accurate than a Shilka.

BMP-2 seems a little too quick and accurate agains A-10 for example

An A-10 is a manned target drone in a modern battlefield environment.

The modern BMP is an armoured personnel carrier sporting the following bristles:

1 - A 100mm Gun firing a 3UOF17 HE fragmentation projectile at a rate of fire of 8 to 10 rds/min or the 3UBK-10-3 with the 9M117 laser-guided antitank missile

and

2 - A 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon, firing HEI, HE-T, APBC-T, APDS and/or APFSDS-T

and if that was not good enough by a country mile, the Gods had a sense of humour and threw in

3 - A 7.62 mm PKT coaxial machine gun

absolutely free!!

And now for the 'Buy Three, Get One Free Option......the real kicker, the Widowmaker package.......

4 - A Computerized Weapons Firing System, ie Automatic Fire Control System with Digital computer, new BZS1 gunner's sight with SAGEM Thermal Imager and Laser Illuminator, TKN-AI Commander's Periscope with Laser Infrared Illuminator and new ammunition-loading system. In addition,a manual override for both gunner and commander. It includes a 1V539 ballistic computer, 2E52 electro-mechanical armament stabiliser and 1D16 laser rangefinder. The gunner has a 1K13-2 main sight, a combined image-intensified day / night sight and PPD-1 standby day sight. The commander has a 1PZ-10 day sight and TKN-3 combined day and image-intensified night sight.

Respect the threat and stay clear of the engagement zone, even more so when flying a tractor.

Yes but will the BMP will fire at an A-10 passing by even if he can ?

I mean it's certainly more effective for him to get in the woods or in a town than firing to an indirect threat passing by.

One "not bad" behavior we found in missions, is to put the IFV in "return fire mode" as they will only begin to reply when the group is engaged (they are in danger).

This allow pilots to make show off forces run over an area without noticing the IFV and potential embarked infantry but they can still see other groups moving of even standing infantry firing.

We found it was a fair compromise in ground attack missions for DCS vs reality without altering the lua files.

An A-10 is a manned target drone in a modern battlefield environment.

 

The modern BMP is an armoured personnel carrier sporting the following bristles:

 

1 - A 100mm Gun firing a 3UOF17 HE fragmentation projectile at a rate of fire of 8 to 10 rds/min or the 3UBK-10-3 with the 9M117 laser-guided antitank missile

 

and

 

2 - A 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon, firing HEI, HE-T, APBC-T, APDS and/or APFSDS-T

 

and if that was not good enough by a country mile, the Gods had a sense of humour and threw in

 

3 - A 7.62 mm PKT coaxial machine gun

 

absolutely free!!

 

 

And now for the 'Buy Three, Get One Free Option......the real kicker, the Widowmaker package.......

 

 

4 - A Computerized Weapons Firing System, ie Automatic Fire Control System with Digital computer, new BZS1 gunner's sight with SAGEM Thermal Imager and Laser Illuminator, TKN-AI Commander's Periscope with Laser Infrared Illuminator and new ammunition-loading system. In addition,a manual override for both gunner and commander. It includes a 1V539 ballistic computer, 2E52 electro-mechanical armament stabiliser and 1D16 laser rangefinder. The gunner has a 1K13-2 main sight, a combined image-intensified day / night sight and PPD-1 standby day sight. The commander has a 1PZ-10 day sight and TKN-3 combined day and image-intensified night sight.

 

Respect the threat and stay clear of the engagement zone, even more so when flying a tractor.

Sorry, but that still doesn't mean that a bmp-3 could automatically spot and engage fast planes that are flying over them. Sure, they might shoot at a engaging plane in a dive, I Tove you that. But there is no capability to track manoveuring jets; the sights and gun laying systems are meant against ground targets.

...... the sights and gun laying systems are meant against ground targets.

Incorrect. Both ground and aerial.

An A-10 is a manned target drone in a modern battlefield environment.

 

The modern BMP is an armoured personnel carrier sporting the following bristles:

 

1 - A 100mm Gun firing a 3UOF17 HE fragmentation projectile at a rate of fire of 8 to 10 rds/min or the 3UBK-10-3 with the 9M117 laser-guided antitank missile

 

and

 

2 - A 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon, firing HEI, HE-T, APBC-T, APDS and/or APFSDS-T

 

and if that was not good enough by a country mile, the Gods had a sense of humour and threw in

 

3 - A 7.62 mm PKT coaxial machine gun

 

absolutely free!!

 

 

And now for the 'Buy Three, Get One Free Option......the real kicker, the Widowmaker package.......

 

 

4 - A Computerized Weapons Firing System, ie Automatic Fire Control System with Digital computer, new BZS1 gunner's sight with SAGEM Thermal Imager and Laser Illuminator, TKN-AI Commander's Periscope with Laser Infrared Illuminator and new ammunition-loading system. In addition,a manual override for both gunner and commander. It includes a 1V539 ballistic computer, 2E52 electro-mechanical armament stabiliser and 1D16 laser rangefinder. The gunner has a 1K13-2 main sight, a combined image-intensified day / night sight and PPD-1 standby day sight. The commander has a 1PZ-10 day sight and TKN-3 combined day and image-intensified night sight.

 

Respect the threat and stay clear of the engagement zone, even more so when flying a tractor.

That all might make a lick of sense if it weren't for the fact that old school T-72s or T-55s are hitting me with their iron sight machine guns just about as accurately in similar situations.

I don't care how crap my tactics are, the closer you fly to a tank the faster I will track through his field of view meaning the gunner has to track faster, lead more, and will have to do all this with his very old school sighting system that hasn't changed much since WW1. Straight line or not this is a tough shot, nevermind the fact that while being engaged by A/G munitions I doubt anybody in that tank is turning out, nevermind the fact that I'll get hit sometimes while pulling Gs in an escape maneuver, nevermind the fact that this'll happen just about the same if its pitch black at night.

If its an incorrect behavior that needs looking at why go to all the trouble of convincing us that these are plausible behaviors from non-AA specialized armour?

The problem I have is when respecting the threat means we're respecting an APC and a Tank as credible anti-air threats more than the dedicated anti-air vehicles that are meant to be escorting these allegedly vulnerable battlefield targets. Here's the thought process in DCS right now:

"Zues? No problem. Shilka? No problem. AAA of any kind ringing the target area? No problem. BMPs in a cluster? Crap, better bring my A game."

I'd sooner drop a stick of Mk-82s on a pair of Shilkas and expect to go home without a scratch before trying to engage a single BMP with the same munitions. Lets not play games with the details, the current behavior isn't plausible regardless of any equipment list on any particular IFV. All that stuff in a BMP shouldn't have anything on a radar guided multi-gun dedicated AAA system should it? But it does. And for what its worth my tactics are generally better than crap.

No-one, least if all me is stating that the current behaviour is correct. On the contrary, it has been confirmed in this very thread that the behaviour/accuracy is being tweaked.

What I am saying is that you cannot expect to be invincible while flying a tortoise in a modern battlefield. In any event, at present a single BMP cannot hit the broadside of a barn, never mind an A-10. Try it and see. Granted, a convoy of 10 or so will ruin you. Again, stay clear.

The only way to fix this currently is to not put the BMP2s AI on excellent.

What I am saying is that you cannot expect to be invincible while flying a tortoise in a modern battlefield. In any event, at present a single BMP cannot hit the broadside of a barn, never mind an A-10. Try it and see. Granted, a convoy of 10 or so will ruin you. Again, stay clear.

I don't think anybody is saying that you should be invulnerable but I have been hit by a single BMP before, during a classic Mk-82 dive bomb delivery. It can hit plenty.

This issue crosses into the world of tanks as well and those guys don't have any of the fancy equipment you mentioned. Respecting the threat therefore becomes a game of laughable paranoia about armour intended primarily for engaging other ground units.

Right now the threat table to an A-10C in DCS is a complicated mess that contradicts logic and can only be made to heel by experience from playing and raging and finally accepting that its broken til one day it gets fixed.

The real message is Respect the threat, but don't think its realistic.

you shouldnt be getting too close to something that is that dangerous.

Correct slant range for engaging tanks is 0.8-0.5 nm. Firing on them from further away with the gun is a waste of bullets. I don't know how not to get close to a tank and still hope to kill it.

Nevertheless the idea that they would even shoot at an A-10 is kind of laughable. In real life they'd just run away with a big plume of exhaust behind them or pop smoke to try and obscure your ability to engage them accurately.

The idea that anybody should be turning out to man a turret mounted gun while being actively engaged by air to ground ordnance is kind of beyond belief. The accuracy they manage while you're passing them at high traverse angle per second is also incredible.

Obviously as you say its being modified, but what is and isn't a threat should be clear. Tanks shouldn't be any sort of threat to maneuvering aircraft or aircraft in general honestly. People think the A-10 is slow but even an A-10 at 325 knots under 1 mile away from you is going to be moving across your front very very quickly.

Has this been patched? 1 year in from the beginning of the post. Not sure if I saw it in any patch notes. But I'm trying to catch up on 5 years of goodies I didn't know about.

I still can't believe this outstanding sim has flown under my radar for so long.

Seem to get creamed by IFV's, but as has been stated the AAA is not that much of issue in comparison.

Followup: Just went back to look at the automaticgun.lua and I'm being hit above 1000 alt when the weapon should only be able to engage me MAX 500?:cry:

-- 14.5mm for BRDM-2, BTR-70, 
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT = {name = "KPVT"}
set_recursive_metatable(GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT, def_mg_LN);
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.type = 3;
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.xc = 1.251
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.distanceMax = 1600
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.max_trg_alt = 500
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.sound = { cycle_shot = "Weapons/Automatic/KPVT", end_burst = "Weapons/Automatic/KPVT_End"}
set_recursive_metatable(GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.sensor, GT_t.WSN_t[2])
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1] = {}
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].switch_on_delay = 20;
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].ammo_capacity = 50;
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].portionAmmoCapacity = 50;
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].reload_time = 20;
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].shell_name = {"KPVT_14_5_T"};
GT_t.LN_t.automatic_gun_KPVT.PL[1].shot_delay = 0.1; -- 600 rpm

Edit: Found out why Meters vs Feet

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2409497&postcount=61

Unfortunately I've just spend about an hour going up against tanks with the A-10C 30mm. Even engaging at long range I get hit extremely quickly knocking out the CICU, gun and maybe an engine. I even got hit at 1.5nm in a climbing turn by a T-72's 12.7mm.

It's pretty frustrating as I'm pretty sure it didn't used to be this way. They detect my presence really quickly and get first rounds hits within a second of detection.

Yep! Don't fight Tanks and IFVs with guns in DCS... Unfortunately, AI is a AAA professional with simple guns, only real AAA like the ZSU-23 misses you all the time whereas MGs are aircraft snipers.

And, no, that is not realistic. MG in anti air are used to hose bullets in the path of an aircraft, that is multiple, as in dozens of MGs... If you ever shot a Machine Gun against a slow flying towed target drone and try to score just ONE hit, you realize how absurd this whole issue is!

I'm sure a laser range computer targeted 20mm is different, but the 12.7 or 7.62 MGs used as point defense on vehicles are ridiculously accurate against aircraft in DCS!

In real life they might happen to get a lucky pot shot now and then, but never ever constantly mauling planes at 300kts!