Shahdoh Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) You didnt find this one? https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803319&postcount=6 See attached files if you have not already. Also, I'm sure the graphics guys could improve them even further, I am no pro in photoshop. Edited July 17, 2020 by Shahdoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=475FG= Dawger Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 You didnt find this one? https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803319&postcount=6 See attached files if you have not already. Also, I'm sure the graphics guys could improve them even further, I am no pro in photoshop. I have your clean prop files in my mods. I just couldn't find the thread when I needed it yesterday. Wrong search terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillesdrone Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 damage to the propeller damage to the propeller, when you get shot on the front, the propeller is endomagated, folded and punctured but you still fly well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkingGerbil Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 Reported a few times now: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=277802 Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!! JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 May I kindly suggest to all those in this thread that have never seen a prop from the cockpit to go out to your local flying club, spend 60 bucks and take a short flight with an instructor? Not only will you notice that the prop disc is indeed almost completely invisible (unless sun is shining from behind), but you'll also have a very nice experience and who knows...maybe you'll decide to get a license :) P.S. it would be nice to have an option in the settings to have a "cinematic" or "naked eye" prop option. 1 Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I was about to say, it's been decades since I've been in a Cessna or Piper Arrow, but I don't recall even being able to see the prop at all except a pale gray disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahdoh Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I agree, I prefer that they keep it subtle, even if they do go with a "bit" of flutter just for sense of movement. Either way, it would be nice if they could standardize their effect for "ALL" of their propeller aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 ? Not only will you notice that the prop disc is indeed almost completely invisible (unless sun is shining from behind), but you'll also have a very nice experience and who knows...maybe you'll decide to get a license :) And then what for those who can visually confirm the speed alterations etc? You say they should come to visit your flight club or you pull some ad hominems? i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzer Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 And then what for those who can visually confirm the speed alterations etc? You say they should come to visit your flight club or you pull some ad hominems? But that's the thing, you can't see the prop... So if you said you can, you are most likely saying it to not admit you are wrong. RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) But that's the thing, you can't see the prop... So if you said you can, you are most likely saying it to not admit you are wrong. You just made a claim that you know what I can see, and what I can't see.... Please provide evidence.... I have provided evidence (Andrews & Purves, 2005;Purves, Paydarfar, & Andrews, 1996;Van Rullen, Reddy, & Koch, 2005;Van Rullen, Zoefel, & Ilhan, 2014) that people can see it as it has been scientifically researched. Now, please provide evidence that it is impossible by anyone. Edited July 29, 2020 by Fri13 i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=475FG= Dawger Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 You just made a claim that you know what I can see, and what I can't see.... Please provide evidence.... I have provided evidence (Andrews & Purves, 2005;Purves, Paydarfar, & Andrews, 1996;Van Rullen, Reddy, & Koch, 2005;Van Rullen, Zoefel, & Ilhan, 2014) that people can see it as it has been scientifically researched. Now, please provide evidence that it is impossible by anyone. The majority of humans do not see prop flicker. A few do but that is no reason to force it on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Classic case of an armchair expert arguing with people who have real world experience. I spent a few days in a prop plane on a cross country flight and never noticed the propeller affecting my vision in any way. Recent DCS prop planes in VR look so bad, I feel fatigued after 5 minutes of looking at that flickering mess. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dali Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 the problem lies in the fact, that too much modeling is based on videos, not personal experience. That's why we also have laser lines shooting from the cannons and guns...camera shutter and eye = not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 31, 2020 Good news is this isnt a problem internally with the new damage model, hopefully you will see it soon. If you can please include a track replay it makes it easier to test if we can see that same examples as you are seeing. thanks * threads merged Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFoxRomeo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Good news is this isnt a problem internally with the new damage model, hopefully you will see it soon. If you can please include a track replay it makes it easier to test if we can see that same examples as you are seeing. thanks * threads merged You merged two threads, both having problems with the propellor, but still different topics. One is about pop damage, the other about the general appearance of popeller textures in game. Perhaps this video makes it clear. Yes it is in recorded in VR with motion reprojection (45fps), but this behaviour appears on flat screen with 100fps+ also. Fox Spoiler PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkingGerbil Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Good news is this isnt a problem internally with the new damage model, hopefully you will see it soon. If you can please include a track replay it makes it easier to test if we can see that same examples as you are seeing. thanks * threads merged Can generate a video and track file of the "visual damage" this weekend and will upload. I haven't really noticed the prop as being very noticeable as far as regular flight with no damage. The only time I really get a sense of that is when the sun is directly behind me, at early morning angles and you can get some pretty intense flashing and glare . . . but I have no real world experience in if that is accurate or not. Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!! JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 31, 2020 You merged two threads, both having problems with the propellor, but still different topics. One is about pop damage, the other about the general appearance of popeller textures in game. Perhaps this video makes it clear. Yes it is in recorded in VR with motion reprojection (45fps), but this behaviour appears on flat screen with 100fps+ also. Fox Propeller improvements are reported, currently in review at the moment Can generate a video and track file of the "visual damage" this weekend and will upload. I haven't really noticed the prop as being very noticeable as far as regular flight with no damage. The only time I really get a sense of that is when the sun is directly behind me, at early morning angles and you can get some pretty intense flashing and glare . . . but I have no real world experience in if that is accurate or not. Thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkingGerbil Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) New track, and vid of visual damage @BIGNEWY Here is the track file, miz file, and a vid. Unfortunately, I had a great run with this track and miz, but wasn't recording, so I am including a vid from an earlier example that shows how the plane responds and flies even with prop blades bent back 90 deg with large holes in them. Will attach vid after it renders at YouTube visualdamage.trkP47CaucasusStraf.miz Edited July 31, 2020 by SmirkingGerbil Added You Tube Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!! JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted August 1, 2020 ED Team Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the track, and nice bomb drop :) It is still possible to fly with a bent prop, Here are some war time examples, all made it back to the base. I will try to reproduce missing prop issues thanks Edited August 1, 2020 by BIGNEWY Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkingGerbil Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the track, and nice bomb drop :) It is still possible to fly with a bent prop, Here are some war time examples, all made it back to the base. I will try to reproduce missing prop issues thanks Wow, thanks! I had no idea it was still possible. I had a "hunch" it might be feasible, but at the same time, I just assumed it would be too catastrophic. I haven't seen the "one blade" artifact since the last OB update. Performance seems unaffected by bent props, but I am a desk driver pilot, so no idea what that type of damage should "feel" like. Thanks on the bomb drop, I have been working on the technique described by WWII protocol. Once you get the hang of it . . . why would you need fuzing! :megalol: Did manage to grab vid later, protocol bomb drop for those not wanting to dig up the track file, happens right at start Edited August 1, 2020 by SmirkingGerbil added detail to sentence. Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!! JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 And then what for those who can visually confirm the speed alterations etc? Tell me (and be honest please): are you one of them? Did you fly in a prop-driven aircraft, sitting behind the prop, and did you see it with your own eyes, as you do in DCS? If yes, you are part of a minority. Do you think a sim meant for the general public should visually represent propellers in a way that is realistic for most people, or for a minority? Here's a fun fact: they color the tips of the blades so people can see the prop, ergo, unless they did so, the prop would be nearly invisible (as it is). Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWC_SLAG Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Thanks for the track, and nice bomb drop :) It is still possible to fly with a bent prop, Here are some war time examples, all made it back to the base. I will try to reproduce missing prop issues thanks I wonder how the FM would handle one blade coming off. It should pretty much rip the engine out of its mountings. TWC_SLAG Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.1mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte curved monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzer Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Propeller improvements are reported, currently in review at the moment Thank you Can you confirm prop improvements will be for all aircraft or just the jug??? RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzer Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Why has this thread merged with one about the prop when it's bent? Not at all relevant to the propellor visibility issue. RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFoxRomeo Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 You just made a claim that you know what I can see, and what I can't see.... Please provide evidence.... I have provided evidence (Andrews & Purves, 2005;Purves, Paydarfar, & Andrews, 1996;Van Rullen, Reddy, & Koch, 2005;Van Rullen, Zoefel, & Ilhan, 2014) that people can see it as it has been scientifically researched. Now, please provide evidence that it is impossible by anyone. Andrews & Purves, 2005: Is behind a paywall Paydarfar, & Andrews, 1996: "As the frequency of stimulus element presentation continued to increase, these alternations persist until the velocity of the stimulus elements became too great to see them clearly, at which point reversals were no longer evident. Thus, the illusion of reversed rotation in continuous light is first observed at frequencies of 2-3Hz and continues to be elicited at frequencies up to at least 20 Hz." Van Rullen, Reddy, & Koch, 2005: "We used wheels rotating at a temporal frequency (or spokealternation rate) of 10 and 7.5 Hz" Van Rullen, Zoefel, & Ilhan, 2014: Conclusion:"... The periodicity of visual perception, in sum, is best described as an ongoing series of attentional cycles at approximately 7–13 Hz." So if I see this right, it does not reinforce your statement. Let's take the biggest presented range of 2Hz - 20Hz per stimulus element. Bf109K4 gear-ratio 1:1.685. 3 blades mean 3 stimulus elements per 1 rotation. -> 2/3Hz - 20/3Hz Range -> Propeller RPM: 40 - 400 -> Engine RPM: 67,4 - 674 So when the engine is above 674RPM(maybe a few more, but not significantly more RPM), this effect is -according to your sources- not visible anymore: "As the frequency of stimulus element presentation continued to increase, these alternations persist until the velocity of the stimulus elements became too great to see them clearly, at which point reversals were no longer evident" (I simplified it a bit, as the blade-tips get blurried quicker than the blade-root, but I don't think this changes the whole situation) Fox Spoiler PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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