stable flying ?

Unlike the KA50, UH-1 flight is unstable. Is there any auto-stable ROLL PITCH system like KA50? It doesn't seem to have any trim.

I'm curious how to take off and land stably like Youttube's real video of huey. Without shaking

No - there is no stabilizing System in the Huey besides the Pilot :pilotfly:

At the moment, the KA-50 is the only drone in DCS :music_whistling:

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It is up to you :thumbup:

The flight model of the Huey have one kind of unstability modelled that isnt really realistic.

At the same time, I think it was the easiest way to try to modulate the helicopters “dynamically unstable but statically stable” caracteristic. Not that bad, but not that good either.

IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about(roughly from mind) 0,5hz.

The trim: you can bind a trim button that works like a simulated force trim. Put the stick to the wished position and hit the button, then release your stick to centre.

One problem is that you loose trow in the other direction so if you not trim back to around centre you might end up in a situation where the stick throw is less then needed in the other direction, putting yourself into a dangerous situation.

For example fast forward flight and trimmed so you can release the stick and keep level flight, if you lower collective much, there is too less backwards throw to catch the nose down attitude that follows the lowered collective, and your nose dive despite stick is maximum back. Its possible to make a quick recall by stick back+trim button and release stick to middle, and then new stick back,

The attitude change/need for cyclic stick backwards from lowering the collective is overdone in the flight model, which of course isnt helpful.

I believe most of the instability and twitchiness in the Huey is the fault of our light, short joysticks. When I upgraded to a 20cm extension on my Warthog stick the Huey became extremely stable and easy to fly.

The flight model of the Huey have one kind of unstability modelled that isnt really realistic.

At the same time, I think it was the easiest way to try to modulate the helicopters “dynamically unstable but statically stable” caracteristic. Not that bad, but not that good either.

 

IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about (roughly from mind) 0,5hz.

 

When I suggested that opinion years ago, they beat me with forks and torches :D

Now the only thing we have to do is keep wrestling with the stick..

I got an MSFFB2 and lowered its ffb to 10%. So wrestling is way to easy and not tiring compared to sticks with springs

No time in huey’s but lots in Robinson’s and other types. The FM feels like a rl teetering blade helicopter to me! I agree there’s a little fore/aft oscillation. It’s really obvious if you speed up time whilst holding the stick perfectly still.

I believe most of the instability and twitchiness in the Huey is the fault of our light, short joysticks. When I upgraded to a 20cm extension on my Warthog stick the Huey became extremely stable and easy to fly.

A stick extension is always a good idea.

1. Because of the long arm forces by the springs much less and it is more relaxed flying.

2. A longer arm increases the "resolution" of the pilot's inputs because of, the way you have available doubles, and it also feels much more realistic. :joystick:

Unlike the KA50, UH-1 flight is unstable. Is there any auto-stable ROLL PITCH system like KA50? It doesn't seem to have any trim.

 

I'm curious how to take off and land stably like Youttube's real video of huey. Without shaking

No. I used to have (and still possess) a non-centering replica B206 cyclic (some kind of early KomodoSim prototype).

Flying the huey with that was:

1) A blast

2) unstable because the stick was non-centering, so using trim was meaningless and I had to constantly "stir" it to whatever degree required to keep the heli on course, exactly like it happens IRL.

then I switched to one of the boutique sticks with extensions and self-centering mechanisms (springs&cams). All of a sudden trim works and I can let go of the cyclic and if properly set up the huey will "fly itself" stable for a few seconds, before drifting.

IDK what's better. I would say hands-on all the time is more realistic (in a non SA helo, you'd never let go of a cyclic IRL, that's the only thing keeping you from crashing) but self-center+trim is so much more comfortable to click around the cockpit, chat etc...

You have to be very gentle with your controls, usually people tend to over correct.

I'm don't know what stick you are using but if you have a TM Warthog it might be worth removing the main spring inside the base so it's no longer self centering. It's much, much easier. Did that years ago and never looked back.

IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about(roughly from mind) 0,5hz.

Ok, finally this seems to be the thread where I can talk about it...

I realised a variation of the oscillation depending on the DCS version on my side.

Also a crowded scenery (other aircraft and helicopters) seems to influence the oscillation.

To me it feels like a kind of input latency which seems to be related to the code side of DCS when a lot of calculations are going on (for example because of a complex scenery around you).

I never dared to ask about this in the forum - because of the forks and torches ebabil mentioned…:D

When 2.5.4 arrived, no subversion of the 2.5.4 branch worked for me.

So I went back to the last 2.5.3. version. It was the only version in which I could pick up the Huey smooth and nearly without oscillations. It is actually possible to hold the helo without movement in the cyclic - just as it should be. A huge difference which is definitely not pilot or joystick related!

Fun fact: I never updated since then because I was so happy with it.

I’m fearing the day I have to update and lose that smooth Huey behaviour…

No time in huey’s but lots in Robinson’s and other types. The FM feels like a rl teetering blade helicopter to me! I agree there’s a little fore/aft oscillation. It’s really obvious if you speed up time whilst holding the stick perfectly still.

I have a few hours in the Huey, and lot more in B206.

I have to start by saying that I like the flight model. Its fun and it feels ok.

But the steering input lag from the teetering head type isnt really there(Not important for me).

There are some other “issues” that is not like in the real huey(or any helo), most of them not that important.

Yes the oscillation is there even if I trim the huey to hands off, and release the stick there is a oscillation that isnt there in any helo(Except for the “BO shuffle” in the Bo105).

Stable flight? Huey? Heh

I guess you've never heard of the "Huey Walk" then. The UH-1H can't be flown hands out for more than a couple of seconds IRL, it is not a stable machine. I have a few years flying and working on the Huey in the military, and I can tell you, the only time that you don't really move the cyclic is in forward flight. In the hover you are constantly making control inputs to keep it steady. The reason you don't really see the inputs is because they are very slight. In the real thing in the hover you make the "OK" sign with your left hand and wrap the thumb and index finger around the collective and rest your pinky on the center console. The cyclic is held with just 3 fingers of right hand while resting your forearm on you right thigh. Computer joysticks to not offer the resolution needed to fly like this in a simulator. As for oscillations, the Huey shakes and vibrates like crazy, even when the rotor head has been balanced to the exact numbers provided and having flown both the DCS Huey, and the real thing, I can tell you the only thing that is off about the DCS Huey is the VRS. Decent with power is not something to take lightly in the real Huey but, it can be flown out of, given enough altitude, which seems to be an issue in DCS. On the whole I would give the Huey, a solid B+. It would be an A+ but the lack of force trim and the aforementioned VRS issue hold it back.

Unlike the KA50, UH-1 flight is unstable. Is there any auto-stable ROLL PITCH system like KA50? It doesn't seem to have any trim.

 

I'm curious how to take off and land stably like Youttube's real video of huey. Without shaking

Fly the Gazelle for a while; you'll grow to appreciate the easy hovering ability of the Huey, although the Gazelle is much more stable cross country.:pilotfly:

I use a FFB stick BTW(MS Sidewinder FFB II) and an app. called "simFFB" that allows me to setup the friction and resistance that simulates the resistance of the rotor head as you move the cyclic. With that setup I can hover the Huey on a dime....maybe not on a dime, but definitely on a manhole cover.:pilotfly:

The UH-1H can't be flown hands out for more than a couple of seconds IRL, it is not a stable machine. I have a few years flying and working on the Huey in the military, and I can tell you, the only time that you don't really move the cyclic is in forward flight. In the hover you are constantly making control inputs to keep it steady.

While still needing corrections, the UH-1 is one of the more stable helos. Its the most mechaninally stable helo I have flown(except helos with electronic stab systems).

This is because of the Bell / Bell Hiller stabilizer bar which act as a mechanical gyro stabilization.

All helicopters are statically stable but dynamically unstable (without electronic help). This means:

-Statically stable: After a disturbance it will "return" to tha initial position/state….but:

-Dynamically unstable: after the "return" it will pass through and start to oscillate and the amplitude of the oscillations will increases progresssively.

So we need to constant apply corrections. Any disturbance will cause the helo to exit trimmed flight. This also is valid for forward speed with the UH-1 also. So the stick will not be held still at forward flight.

I can tell you the only thing that is off about the DCS Huey is the VRS. Decent with power is not something to take lightly in the real Huey but, it can be flown out of, given enough altitude, which seems to be an issue in DCS. On the whole I would give the Huey, a solid B+. It would be an A+ but the lack of force trim and the aforementioned VRS issue hold it back.

The DCS Huey is "off" from the real version in a lot of areas. Not to be picky, I like the DCS Huey. I do not need 100% correct behaviour to be happy, I get that by other means. The feeling is good in the Huey, that is what matters.

There is a force trim setting I use( I have seen that there is some choices but I havent tested the others).

The one I use gives force trim(of corse without moving the stick with a simple joystick).

A click on the button and the actual stick position transfers to the joystick centre.

There is one problem, that would be an easy software fix: forcetrimming makes you loose throw in the other direction. Meaning that you might end up in a situation where the joystick throw is less then needed to a specific situation. For example, the cyclic pullback needed when lowering the collective / entering an auto is way to much in DCS and if forcetrimmed for level forward flight you might end up with less aft stick then needed and if you not reset the trim centrered bad things will happen.

I just fly with fingertips and with the joystick between my thighs. Its not a difficult aircraft to fly even in the worst of weather.

the best option, for trim, by far, is the option "joystick with no springs or FFB"

if you have a warthog.

all you need do is remove the return spring from your joystick.

holding the stick in any position is then no different than holding it in any other.

so trim is irrelevant.

and you can make the soft hand movements required to correct the wobble.

it becomes muscle memory and automatic.

FFB would of course be the best option but there are no FFB sticks i would recommend.

the sidewinder does not have enough buttons.

everything else is very expensive.

flying with the spring and the trim abstraction is the last choice i would choose.

the best option, for trim, by far, is the option "joystick with no springs or FFB"

if you have a warthog.

all you need do is remove the return spring from your joystick.

 

flying with the spring and the trim abstraction is the last choice i would choose.

That is only valid if flying helo only and even then I dont really like the idea of a springless stick.

Bell 206 have it, and I flew the 206 around then hours recently so I know how it works but I wouldnt like to have it like that in DCS.

In the old 206, there really isnt a choise( you can increase the friction so it doesnt fall forward immediateöy if you release it), but in DCS there is and for me I like the centerring function.

I dont play DCS very much but when I do I fly the same A/C as my gaming friends = mostly fixed wing and rotary wing not that often.

Maneuvering the Huey is so much easier with a force feedback joystick. Luckily, I'm 400 years old, so I have the old MSFB2.0 stick.

With a force feedback stick, you use the trimmer to set a NEW initial position on the stick, so both hover and forward flight is a breeze.

Maneuvering the Huey is so much easier with a force feedback joystick. Luckily, I'm 400 years old, so I have the old MSFB2.0 stick.

With a force feedback stick, you use the trimmer to set a NEW initial position on the stick, so both hover and forward flight is a breeze.

Thats good if you can live with the lower number of buttons for HOTAS-needs.

Thats also exactly how the force trim works.

That is only valid if flying helo only and even then I dont really like the idea of a springless stick.

Bell 206 have it, and I flew the 206 around then hours recently so I know how it works but I wouldnt like to have it like that in DCS.

In the old 206, there really isnt a choise( you can increase the friction so it doesnt fall forward immediateöy if you release it), but in DCS there is and for me I like the centerring function.

 

I dont play DCS very much but when I do I fly the same A/C as my gaming friends = mostly fixed wing and rotary wing not that often.

i know where you are coming from.

as an IT man i avoid aircraft with computers. to much like my day job :)

so my joystick is setup for hands on flying.

its not just helicopters. it works for warbirds too.

which have limited trim. or no trim in the case of the i-16.

there are no right answers only wrong ones :) and we are opposite sides of the bell distribution curve.

the warthog itself is setup to favour your side though so for others on my side of the curve it may be better to mod it.

i know where you are coming from.

 

as an IT man i avoid aircraft with computers. to much like my day job :)

 

so my joystick is setup for hands on flying.

 

its not just helicopters. it works for warbirds too.

which have limited trim. or no trim in the case of the i-16.

 

there are no right answers only wrong ones :) and we are opposite sides of the bell distribution curve.

 

the warthog itself is setup to favour your side though so for others on my side of the curve it may be better to mod it.

My daytime job is a very computerized A/C with Fly by Wire.

I mostly enjoy car racing games, got my first PC steering wheel 1996. Thrustmaster GP1 ! ( today = Thrustmaster TX Leather Edition)

Since then Ive mostly used Thrustmaster stuff, so the Warthog choise wasnt a long shot.

What ever kind of stick it will be a compromise if not used for a single purpose. I have no plans to get another one, I can lice with it and have no problems with flying the Huey stable.

Im helping a friend building a rig, seat, cyclic, collective and pedals. It will be made just for DCS /Helos and will have force trim/mag brakes and normal trim motors etc. It will be very good for helo flying, and if playing with aircraft itll work but sort of a compromise for that.

Hello guys,

I am new in DCS and also in Aircraft Simulator world. I prefer helicopters so I bought UH-1H module as my first one. I also bought Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS One which cost at about 70 USD. I am of course struggling with the complexity of the DCS itself and the controlling all the strange staff around. :) I am watching dozens of tutorials, technical explanations about helicopters, reading manuals, browsing forums etc. My question is if you recommend me to upgrade the controller to Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog (360 USD) + Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder (400 USD)? Will it have fundamental influence to my ability to control UH-1H and any other aicrafts in the future?

Thanks a lot for your advices in advance.

Hello guys,

I am new in DCS and also in Aircraft Simulator world. I prefer helicopters so I bought UH-1H module as my first one. I also bought Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS One which cost at about 70 USD. I am of course struggling with the complexity of the DCS itself and the controlling all the strange staff around. :) I am watching dozens of tutorials, technical explanations about helicopters, reading manuals, browsing forums etc. My question is if you recommend me to upgrade the controller to Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog (360 USD) + Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder (400 USD)? Will it have fundamental influence to my ability to control UH-1H and any other aicrafts in the future?

 

Thanks a lot for your advices in advance.

You ”need” pedals to have good yaw control. A twisting stick is possible to use but wount feel as real as pedals.

For the cyclic, I dont tinkt theres a very big difference between those two sticks. Neither can change the centre for trimming purpose and both are quite sensitive, because they are quite short.

The Warthog can be quite easily extended to work more like a helicopter cyclic.

Your question is mainly a question about how hard the hit on you are on the wallet. The Warthog have a less plastic feeling with more buttons but the control of the helo wont differ that much. (I have the warthog, and my neighbour had the T.Flight before so I have tested borth.)

If or when you get into fighters and start asigning HOTAS buttons-funtions you will probably run out of buttons quite fast with the T-Flight and this might be the most probable reason to get a Warthog.

I do not have any problem controlling the Huey with any of these sticks.

These are very useful info for me, I really appreciate it. I also changed stick curves setting for x (+25) and y (+25) and it seems much more stable while taking off and "hoovering".

Thanks again.