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Old 12-09-2018, 02:34 AM   #1
Zimmerdylan
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Default Need some suggestions

I pre purchased the Sabre when it was first announced. I have owned both it and the Mig15 from their release dates. Honestly, I have never particularly enjoyed flying either of them. I may take a cruise around once in a while in one of them but I fly no missions or do any kind of challenge in them.
When the Hawk was released I purchased it. The plane was full of problems but I preferred it to the F86. All of the control issues with the Hawk that people seemed to have didn't hold a candle to the issues I have always had with the F86 and the Mig15. It seemed odd to me that people were shredding VEAO and the Hawk, when the F86 and Mig had what I saw as a very flawed flight model. More so than the Hawk.
Today, after a long absence from DCS, I flew the F86. All of those terrible issues that I had with it came rushing back like flood waters from a broken levy. It didn't take long before I was so frustrated that I shut down DCS and am shelving Belsimtek planes once again.
Maybe some of you feel my pain, maybe some of you don't see or understand what I dislike about these two planes. What I can tell you is that I do not plan on purchasing any Belsimtek modules down the line because of these issues.
So I am going to state my issues here and then maybe some of you can offer solutions or insight to me. Belsimtek has become my VEAO.

1. The nose of both of these planes is all over the screen. Controlling either plane is terrible. When you are trying to do anything requiring precision, it's like balancing a marble on the tip of a needle. The plane bounces like crazy with the smallest of movement. I have set my axis curve up to 30% and it has never helped. The plane just becomes sluggish on top of sloppy. No other module that I own acts like this. These two planes have always been this way and I absolutely dread doing anything in either of them.

2. I spend 90% of my time fighting the trim. The trim in these planes is horrible. There is no sweet spot. And by this I mean that there is no 100% sweet spot in any plane. But you can get relative stability to where you aren't fighting to keep the nose down or up. These planes don't trim worth a damn. You are either fighting going completely nose up, or into the ground. No plane in any sim that I fly is this bad. And yes, I know how to balance my trim with the throttle and all of that. These Belsimtek modules don't seem to be capable of trimming well. I spend more time fighting the plane than performing tasks in missions.

3. There just is no stability in general. When I have an easier time flying WWII planes that have no trim. There's a problem with the flight model of a modern jet IMO.
Keep in mind that I know about speed issues with both planes and how they become difficult to manage at higher speeds. These planes fly like crap at any speed.

I have always disliked these two planes for these reasons only. I want to fly and enjoy them but they're just no fun.
So........To that end. How do people who find these planes enjoyable feel about my issues. Am I crazy? Or am I just doing something wrong? Is there some secret to the trim? Do you find the nose of these planes to bounce like a rubber ball? If not, please share what you may be doing that I am not.
I personally find them less likable than the Hawk. I don't care if the cockpit textures aren't perfect as long as I can keep the plane steady. In my opinion, the Hawk was head over heels to Belsimtek in this area. This is a constant struggle in the Belsimtek panes and I let them sit on the shelf because of it.


Thanks

Last edited by Zimmerdylan; 12-09-2018 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:35 AM   #2
Zius
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First of all, I'm not a professional and have not made any in-depth analysis comparing the flight characteristics of the real aircraft with the DCS version.
Secondly, I don't have the F-86.

But I do have the MiG-15 and I understand what your saying.
I just happen to have a completely different perspective.

Personally I love flying the MiG-15.
For much of the reasons why you dislike it so much.

Like you I'm also struggling a bit with the controls.
For free flying, I think it's perfectly fine.
Yes, you need to hold on to the stick, but it's ok in my opinion.
I have to admit that I don't trim at all...
It's nothing like taking off or landing in a taildragger where you have apply maximum rudder and still feel that it's not enough.

I'm also struggling with dogfighting, although I blame that mostly on the muzzle velocity of the cannons.
Some historical accounts that I read confirm that dogfighting in the MiG-15 is difficult.

Overall, yes, the MiG-15 is a struggle.
To me that means character.
Again, I didn't compare it to the real aircraft, but to me it feels incredibly authentic.

If I want to fly straight as an arrow without touching anything I'll take the M2K or the Hornet. But I rarely fly those planes to be honest...
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Last edited by Zius; 12-09-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:57 AM   #3
metzger
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You have a fundamental mistake in your perspective in all your points. Those are not modern jets, those are pretty much the first jets. Engine spool up is very slow which means it has very big throttle reaction lag, you need to anticipate for that and this makes trimming more tricky to do but definitely not as bad as you described. I have no problems trimming it for level flight, of course trim is not autopilot you can't trim for hands off flying in this old jets.

Another point is that those aircraft have very small swept wing high wing load, another reason why they are bouncy and not so stable.

On the other hand ww2 birds have almost no throttle lag and big straight wings, once trimmed, they are very stable.

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Old 12-09-2018, 08:12 AM   #4
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I find both these planes extremely enjoyable to fly, and two of the most fun planes to dogfight in. Sure, you need to adjust the trim a lot, but otherwise they're not difficult in my opinion. And I don't use any curves at all (exept for the rudder for ground handling).

So I have to ask... are you sure that your control inputs are correctly set up? You know that the game sometimes doubles the axis inputs buy default, which causes really weird behavour.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:30 AM   #5
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I can't tell whether a flight model is 'real' or not - but MiG-15 'feels' awesome. Just like it should, IMHO.

There are quirks, it can be jumpy, you need to watch the speed, you need to constantly fly it, yes, I get what you're saying. But those are things that you would expect from the actual plane and it's what makes it awesome.

About trimming, there is a sweet spot for MiG-15 that you can get it trimmed in level flight, just gotta make sure you're not going too fast. Trimmed well enough to take my hands of the stick to operate the radios etc atleast.

Anyway - not saying you are wrong in your opinion. People enjoy different things. But I don't think it's the flaw of the module in this case - maybe you just did a wrong choice based on your personal preference?
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