The HARM capabilities thread. (AGM-88C)

Are we really going to be getting the true stand-off capabilities of the HARM?

I know literally nothing about the HARM, but newer SAMs should be able to defend themselves against HARMs and shoot them out of the sky, right? That's going to be interesting.

I would give this a read, not sure on how accurate it is, or how it will translate into DCS, but it's probably a good starting point for seeing what the HARM could do: https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/BMS_AGM-88_HARM

IIRC there's been a video of someone doing a Hornet cold&dark assisted by Wags where Wags later gave an interview explaining all the modes the HARM will have in DCS on the Hornet (and lots of other stuff about MAC, future maps etc). Just can't find it right now. Pretty much was what Jameswfm quoted.

Edit: found it

Good stuff.

 

The biggest question I have about the HARM in the Hornet is:

 

Can the Hornet equip a pod like the HTS? If yes, which one? If not, Is the HARM sensor in TOO similar in capabilities as the HTS?

 

 

thanks a lot.

No, not yet! But F/A18C has another way. In TOO mode, the radar alarm sensor senses the SAM radar, and then we intercept the signal from the radar alarm, Hand-off to the AG radar. The approximate position of SAM will be displayed on AG radar.

I believe I already know the answer, but:

Is it possible to lock a threat from a distance and hand off the targeting information to a buddy, say, in the weeds and close, allowing for a popup attack?

I believe I already know the answer, but:

 

Is it possible to lock a threat from a distance and hand off the targeting information to a buddy, say, in the weeds and close, allowing for a popup attack?

I don't believe so Mac, as the Hornet doesn't possess emitter location capabilities as far as I know. If the 'buddy' has a HARM, then it may be possible to make a general request and if the emitter in question is the only active system in the area, it makes the task far easier, but target hand-off where the Hornet is the primary data gathering source, won't be possible.

I know literally nothing about the HARM, but newer SAMs should be able to defend themselves against HARMs and shoot them out of the sky, right? That's going to be interesting.

Edit : newer Tor even intercept incoming bom. I remember watching it on youtube. As for DCS, I don't believe it has been modeled.

Will we get E version?

Will we get E version?

weapons/ sensors generally up to a mid 2000s ( ie circa 2005) hornet.

AG88E is too modern, i think there would be too much approximation on it and how its intergrated ( if at all) into the Legacy Hornet.

I would give this a read, not sure on how accurate it is, or how it will translate into DCS, but it's probably a good starting point for seeing what the HARM could do: https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/BMS_AGM-88_HARM

Holy hell memories. I actually wrote the original back in the day. I haven't kept up with it since. SEAD used to be my jam, and soon will be my jam once we get it in the Hornet. I love Wild Weasel stuff.

Will the HARM integration feature the Lockheed Martin TAS ? This targeting system, located in the pylon, uses a set of interferometers and makes it possible to know the distance to the target, which makes the use of the HARM way more efficient.

No - as far as I know, this system was never actually used on Legacy Hornets or Rhinos. Limited to Self Protection, Target of Opportunity and Pre-Briefed modes.

Will the HARM integration feature the Lockheed Martin TAS ? This targeting system, located in the pylon, uses a set of interferometers and makes it possible to know the distance to the target, which makes the use of the HARM way more efficient.

I'm not sure if the TAS has ever been fielded to any aircraft. It kinda seems like the TAS project got canceled during development. At least that's how it looks like to me.

The AGM-88 missile has an inbuilt inertial system, so that whenever it has acquired a lock once, it will continue towards the target even if the emitter is shut down (although the CEP is larger in this case).

This is inaccurate for the HARM version we're getting, INS/GPS was implemented in AGM-88D+ versions, which essentially makes it a rocket powered JDAM. Whenever you launch the D+ versions just map an INS/GPS position to fly to, in case the radar switches off.

AGM-88A/B/C just have an HARM Command Launch Computer (CLC) which takes the emissions on launch and hands them off to the missile's *basic INS* to determine a point for the missile to go pitbull on its own seeker at a fixed point and where to kinda find the target.

Hornet won't get any pod since none were ever used (though HTS was tested just about once I believe it doesn't justify modelling it). So we are limited to pre-planned, or launch via RWR and the seeker's own seeker head - these last two will severely limit the range compared to pre-planned or transfer of data from HTS.

All in all, if a radar switches off the Hornet's HARM, it will miss, lock on another target or self-destroy (read that somewhere, it will self-detonate if it can't find anything).

Will we get E version?

We get the C version.

From Nov 6th, 2017

Weapons:

AGM-88C HARM

AFAIK the main improvement of the D/E model were the addition or improvement of INS/GPS for accurate targeting of emitters that became silent.

 

The AGM-88D Block 6 HARM

Development effort continues on the HARM design to further refine its capabilities. The greatest weakness of established HARM variants is their inability to accurately home on targets which have ceased to emit. Often the missile may not guide close enough to inflict any useful damage.

 

The AGM-88D Block 6 variant is intended to eliminate this limitation in the HARM, for range known launches. The Block 6 upgrade is a cooperative German-Italian-USN effort to fit the missile with a precision guidance kit, employing GPS-inertial guidance. The HARM fitted with this kit would fly a much more exact trajectory, using GPS to aid its inertial package, producing some improvement to the missile's existing 50-80 NMI range. Should the emitter be lost, the missile will continue its flight under GPS inertial control to impact. The CEP of the GPS guidance package will be of the order of 20 ft, however the limitation to lethality will be primarily imposed by the accuracy of targeting receiver used to initialise the missile. Since target GPS coordinates for known fixed targets may be determined by other means, the missile has potentially very h

Does DCS even simulate target loss for ARMs? The AGM-88 is already implemented for AI. What happens if the target radar gets switched off while the missile is in the air? Same question for the player fired AGM-122 Sidearm and the ARM that can be used by the Su-25T?

I strongly think the C version we will have has INS. Not GPS though, the ones with INS GPS have a very small CEP and if the radar operatos shuts it off the missile will still impact almost spot on.

Ah yes it does have some form of mechanical INS for navigating to where the Command Launch Computer tells it to go, before going active. Terminal guidance is solely relied upon with the passive RF seeker though, and otherwise detonates if it can't find anything. So its INS doesn't help too much.

So to sum things up: the C HARM will miss if the emitter turns off (or should, not sure how this is modeled in DCS currently). INS is used to guide the missile to the rough vicinity of the emitter only and the missile will self destruct if the source turns off and the missile can't find an emitter to home on.

HARM Flex Logic

All in all, if a radar switches off the Hornet's HARM, it will miss, lock on another target or self-destroy (read that somewhere, it will self-detonate if it can't find anything).

Using Flex Logic, if secondary and tertiary targets have been programmed and are within the seekers FoV after it fails to find the primary target, it can 'flex' to these others.

Does DCS even simulate target loss for ARMs? The AGM-88 is already implemented for AI. What happens if the target radar gets switched off while the missile is in the air? Same question for the player fired AGM-122 Sidearm and the ARM that can be used by the Su-25T?

SAM radars in DCS don't switch off, unless someone closer to it kills it first

Would be great though if they were smarter...

It does help when using PB, otherwise it would not work. You launch it from 75nm and when in lock on range the seeker goes active. The INS was not built in for impact but for navigation to lock on range.

navigating to where the Command Launch Computer tells it to go, before going active.

That's what i said :)

SAM radars in DCS don't switch off, unless someone closer to it kills it first

 

Would be great though if they were smarter...

I think I heard somewhere the SA-11 does a trick like that with its TELARS when you put the AI on something high, not sure though.

In DCS multiplayer you can indeed turn the radar off, and ARM will miss. It's done quite often on the DDCS server.

In DCS multiplayer you can indeed turn the radar off, and ARM will miss. It's done quite often on the DDCS server.

going against AI hornets the AGM88C will continue on the same course of the last radar signal it received.

So it will still have a good chance of taking out stationary radars or SAMs. anyone playing Mobile tracked systems after shutting down thier radar is highly recommended to egress at least a short distance to not get hit.

Ah yes it does have some form of mechanical INS for navigating to where the Command Launch Computer tells it to go, before going active. Terminal guidance is solely relied upon with the passive RF seeker though, and otherwise detonates if it can't find anything. So its INS doesn't help too much.

The AGM-88C has an active seeker?