Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

The only thing I can think of is having a set range of time that the mission persistence and objective ownership counts...like the map objectives can only be moved during primetime hours (however these are set) based on the average hours that there are equal people on each team. The objectives would be frozen, or reset on map restart, outside of those hours. I don't know, just spitballing here.

 

The TAW campaign server on IL2:BoS used a quorum population ratio limit mechanic to enable objectives, but this kinda backfired and discouraged people joining the server when quorum wasn't met. Not sure how it would work here.

I see, if the same thing is done that TAW did, the same thing happening here. It really is a hard thing to do and overcome. Maybe enabling AI fighters for the team with the smaller numbers if the population is too different? I mean enabling AI CAP that spawns air born and not on the ground then needing to taxi.

Again, no idea. Anyone else want to weight in?

Agree. It's tough due to the time zone changes. Prime time in some time zones are Red heavy and Blue in others. I'm US West coast and it tends to go blue late in the night. When I check the map before work in the morning, mostly Red. You might have to accept, based on when you play, "Looks like i'll always be on (Defense/Offense) based on these player counts." You might get some count variances due to local holidays.

When I play indoor soccer, If you're losing by 5, you get an extra player on the field. I don't know what the DCS version of that would be.

Maybe extra lives for team if your outnumbered 2:1.

Maybe extra lives for team if your outnumbered 2:1.

Or the ability to place more sa6 or the ability to construct a single sa10?

I see, if the same thing is done that TAW did, the same thing happening here. It really is a hard thing to do and overcome. Maybe enabling AI fighters for the team with the smaller numbers if the population is too different? I mean enabling AI CAP that spawns air born and not on the ground then needing to taxi.

 

Again, no idea. Anyone else want to weight in?

I think enabling AI CAP for the team with fewer numbers is a good way to go. I would keep it ground start, but start from parking hot. I don't like the idea of fighters spawning instantly in the air and shooting at your A-10 running CAS over a completely destroyed field, just like the SAMs do on repair.

If there were a counter and the ratio was 2:1 or greater, with a minimum of 15 people online, then active CAP AI for the lower population side. You need a min player number so one team doesn't get CAP fighters when it's 2 vs 1 or 4 vs 2. Those numbers aren't a problem. It's 18 vs 3 that we are trying to curtail.

Another option would be to have a third group to balance teams. I would happily just be a pilot for hire to whichever side has fewer players at any given time. Those of us in that group join the server and are automatically assigned at that time to the side with fewer players online. I would also get the luxury of being able to fly all the aircraft in a single round :)

I don't care as much about the long-term campaign win as much as I do each encounter and trying to win the next objective, whichever side I'm on.

I think enabling AI CAP for the team with fewer numbers is a good way to go. I would keep it ground start, but start from parking hot. I don't like the idea of fighters spawning instantly in the air and shooting at your A-10 running CAS over a completely destroyed field, just like the SAMs do on repair.

 

If there were a counter and the ratio was 2:1 or greater, with a minimum of 15 people online, then active CAP AI for the lower population side. You need a min player number so one team doesn't get CAP fighters when it's 2 vs 1 or 4 vs 2. Those numbers aren't a problem. It's 18 vs 3 that we are trying to curtail.

 

Another option would be to have a third group to balance teams. I would happily just be a pilot for hire to whichever side has fewer players at any given time. Those of us in that group join the server and are automatically assigned at that time to the side with fewer players online. I would also get the luxury of being able to fly all the aircraft in a single round :)

 

I don't care as much about the long-term campaign win as much as I do each encounter and trying to win the next objective, whichever side I'm on.

I know the AI CAP was my idea, but I think it may cause lag whether they spawn in the air or on the ground.

I think the third groups could cause more problems than it solves. What if tons of people join that group? What happened a if you're in that group and you want to play with friends but teams are even? How's does it determine what team to put you on then?

Again, what about adding the ability to deploy a certain air defence like the sa10, tors, etc? Have them then despawn on restart. Or better yet, just have them spawn in if the team balance is too bad. That way there is added defence to make it much harder to attack, but not impossible. Have like an sa10 shield that can be hit with coordinated attacks, but prevents people from just pushing and dominating.

One thing I have to say though is that I'd something like this does get put in the campaign will go without movement for a much longer time.

I'd vote for AI CAP or scramble. IIRC, Open Conflict applied this to their AI CAP, it spawn for side with lower number of fighter.

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To help keep teams even you could follow the same mindset as First person shooter multiplayers servers like battlefield. If one team is stacked, you are not allowed to join that team. Of course this would only help with the initial choosing of teams and for new people joining. But it is better then nothing.

To help keep teams even you could follow the same mindset as First person shooter multiplayers servers like battlefield. If one team is stacked, you are not allowed to join that team. Of course this would only help with the initial choosing of teams and for new people joining. But it is better then nothing.

The teams are stacked now. 299 red to 419 blue and there are more red on during off hours. I would have thought it would have been the opposite.

Can CTLD spawn (unhide) a group of units at an objective based upon numbers? I.E. if it's heavy 2:1 red, all blue objectives now have extra defenses (maybe a TOR or two?) As you get further into blue territory the defenses increase. So if you push to whatever base is south of Senanki you now have an sa3, sa10, couple of TORs, maybe even a ship to contend with? Only if numbers were unbalanced. Once numbers go back closer to 1:1 these units despawn (hide?)

TJ

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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

The teams are stacked now. 299 red to 419 blue and there are more red on during off hours. I would have thought it would have been the opposite.

Agreed. I joined red because the numbers said red needed help. Tonight it was 8 red to 1 blue. I went to Open Conflict instead.

TJ

Edit: I wonder if we can get an active number of mins played per player ratio instead of the raw numbers. This would tell you the 299 red are way more active than the 4xx blue players and might show you that blue actually needs more help.

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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

Could CTLD allow long range missiles for the low man team? And maybe faster fueling time?

A low man team needs defense... air superiority is the best way to stop the attack. Maybe a 2:1 ratio allows the low team advanced capabilities?

TJ

Edit: what about faster respawn times? 2:1 ratio respawns four times faster than 1:1? This might take a 40 min respawn down to 10 min forcing the attacking team to have their coordination down. I'm not sure if that's going to help, red seems to be really coordinated.

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Pretty much this. People constantly crying out for balance need to chill out and learn to adapt. Things as they are now are mostly fine except for the Mirage being too popular issue. The only assets I understand being mixed is the 25 as it's the only SEAD capable asset and the Viggen for being the only anti-ship capable asset. Everything else is there because someone cried to get it. How can you complain about the KA-50 when you have the A-10, but "RED also has the A-10!!!", now we have to give BLUE a KA-50? See the issue?

This

Each side should have it's own strength and weakness. This whining about balance is childish. Personally, I wish we, red, didn't have the A10. I don't want it. We have the Ka50. If things keep going this way, we are just going to have the same plane set on both sides. I know early on this was the case, but that is absolutely not interesting to me.

Could CTLD allow long range missiles for the low man team? And maybe faster fueling time?

 

A low man team needs defense... air superiority is the best way to stop the attack. Maybe a 2:1 ratio allows the low team advanced capabilities?

 

TJ

 

Edit: what about faster respawn times? 2:1 ratio respawns four times faster than 1:1? This might take a 40 min respawn down to 10 min forcing the attacking team to have their coordination down. I'm not sure if that's going to help, red seems to be really coordinated.

 

 

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Why do you think FARPs are so close together, and why repair crates work the way they work. I think Buddyspike nailed it. How you use your resources is up to you. Even out numbered we have done quite well on defense.

Ok, everything but your last sentence didn't make sense at all. When your one or two up against 8 or more, what do you expect those poor souls to do?

Why do you think FARPs are so close together, and why repair crates work the way they work. I think Buddyspike nailed it. How you use your resources is up to you. Even out numbered we have done quite well on defense.

Momentarily I see the following issues:

ABRIS giving RED the opportunity to relay safe routes to chopper pilots or mark thread areas for everyone on their team.

Lack of resistance (here: missing AI interceptors) makes it way too easy for everyone to take over anything. Ciribob told me already they won't happen anytime soon due to massive bugs coming along with their spawn.

Team stacking has always been a problem since I started flying Blueflag in round 5. Time zones once where a factor but at the moment it looks like during US prime time there are more RED pilots on (traitors!). Only around 0600 GMT BLUE seems to get a few hours of relief where they can actually try and get something back.

Greatest problem for BLUE at the moment is dedication and seriousness. All too often I see BLUE pilots attacking a target when there is no chopper around to capture it, wasting prescious fuel, time and manpower. When an airfiel is low on fuel I only grab a few pounds and hop to the nearest airfield that has more fuel and get all my stuff there. Everyone else is just filling up to the max where they start, burn towards a target and die.

Oh, before I forget: We need A-10s at PAK6.

AI CAP is also something we are thinking about, we will update later if we decide to add any.

As Greg & Ciribob said, most of the team have very little time at the moment and we do our best to improve and get the next rounds running in Caucasus and Normandy.

I vote no to ai cap.

The map is on-line for blue and for red....and all can check the situation..if for the people this campaign is important can check and go for cap in case of superiority of other team.

1 aircraft blue can kill at one time

2/3 elicopters plus a su25 or a10...

You can t do proportion only for how many are in game. I think the server is good now whithout modification.

For me it is important that if i see a mi8 i know it s red...that if i see an a10 i know is blue...

For me occidental to blue and others to red.

If i am an a 10 and i want to use sidewinder whithout iff....?

Yesterday i was takeoff from a red airfield and there was a su25 in the air and i could not know if was red or blue...

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I vote no to ai cap.

The map is on-line for blue and for red....and all can check the situation..if for the people this campaign is important can check and go for cap in case of superiority of other team.

1 aircraft blue can kill at one time

2/3 elicopters plus a su25 or a10...

You can t do proportion only for how many are in game. I think the server is good now whithout modification.

For me it is important that if i see a mi8 i know it s red...that if i see an a10 i know is blue...

For me occidental to blue and others to red.

If i am an a 10 and i want to use sidewinder whithout iff....?

Yesterday i was takeoff from a red airfield and there was a su25 in the air and i could not know if was red or blue...

 

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There are A10s and Mi8s on both teams.

I liked the AI-CAP in previous BlueFlag rounds. It wasn't a game changer, but it made BlueFlag feel more alive, especially at the times where player numbers are low. On top of that it brought more diversity to BlueFlag because there are more aircraft types available for the AI than there are for players.

So I vote yes on AI-CAP.

I liked the AI-CAP in previous BlueFlag rounds. It wasn't a game changer, but it made BlueFlag feel more alive, especially at the times where player numbers are low. On top of that it brought more diversity to BlueFlag because there are more aircraft types available to the AI than there are to players.

 

So I vote yes on AI-CAP.

+1

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AI CAP is also something we are thinking about, we will update later if we decide to add any.

 

As Greg & Ciribob said, most of the team have very little time at the moment and we do our best to improve and get the next rounds running in Caucasus and Normandy.

Cool that you guys are thinking about something.

I would not worry too much about the current discussion topic of balance. I think this is a much more civilized conversation than ones we have had in the past about this and other topics. I do the think anyone is gunho about something being done now, people are just voicing how they feel about it and bringing ideas to the table.

Agreed. I joined red because the numbers said red needed help. Tonight it was 8 red to 1 blue. I went to Open Conflict instead.

 

TJ

The reason you didn't see too many blue on is because Redfor ran them out of fuel. I played last night, and Bluefor pilots would log on, and then log off.

They were getting shot down so much by the SAMs our choppers were putting out it eventually drained all the fuel from the air quakers.

This

 

Each side should have it's own strength and weakness. This whining about balance is childish. Personally, I wish we, red, didn't have the A10. I don't want it. We have the Ka50. If things keep going this way, we are just going to have the same plane set on both sides. I know early on this was the case, but that is absolutely not interesting to me.

I disagree, it is far more fun with the shared assets. What makes Blue Flag -> Blue Flag to me is the lives, economy, base capturing, team work, etc... It is not the air-frame in which I do it.

Ok, everything but your last sentence didn't make sense at all. When your one or two up against 8 or more, what do you expect those poor souls to do?

 

Momentarily I see the following issues:

ABRIS giving RED the opportunity to relay safe routes to chopper pilots or mark thread areas for everyone on their team.

 

Lack of resistance (here: missing AI interceptors) makes it way too easy for everyone to take over anything. Ciribob told me already they won't happen anytime soon due to massive bugs coming along with their spawn.

 

Team stacking has always been a problem since I started flying Blueflag in round 5. Time zones once where a factor but at the moment it looks like during US prime time there are more RED pilots on (traitors!). Only around 0600 GMT BLUE seems to get a few hours of relief where they can actually try and get something back.

 

Greatest problem for BLUE at the moment is dedication and seriousness. All too often I see BLUE pilots attacking a target when there is no chopper around to capture it, wasting prescious fuel, time and manpower. When an airfiel is low on fuel I only grab a few pounds and hop to the nearest airfield that has more fuel and get all my stuff there. Everyone else is just filling up to the max where they start, burn towards a target and die.

 

Oh, before I forget: We need A-10s at PAK6.

I'll hit your points in order.

First point: The Ka-50 has always been this way. It sucks, and I would love for that not to be a thing, but even if it is or isn't a thing I personally still want to put the Ka-50 on Bluefor, and SA342 (all variants) on Redfor.

Second point: There is a great deal of resistance from Bluefor owned assets, far more than Redfor assets which in many cases don't have any defenses. Last night, 3 Ka-50's (including me), 2 25-T's, 2 Mi-8's, and a couple Mig-21's (and I'm probably forgetting people) attacked a fuel depot, and it wasn't enough to close it. Truth be told it should have been enough, but there are tons of hardened bunkers at those things, and it takes a high level of coordination not to hit the same target.

That said, I don't want AI added back because the AI locks your aircraft up from 3 million miles away while they're on the ground completely destroying any SA the Redfor craft have. They become the immediate threat regardless if a player craft is tracking you from 5 KM at your six.

Third point: Team stacking is almost always in favor of Bluefor. Take a look at the registered numbers. 100+ greater, that's huge! What's causing the low Bluefor numbers as the battle drags on is the fuel system being reintroduced. Essentially everyone on Bluefor is playing air quake, and running the bases out of gas.

Yesterday we saw many Bluefor pilots join, and exceed Redfor numbers, but it didn't last long because once they ran out of gas they left. They didn't bother to do supply runs, they just left.

I welcome the return of the fuel economy, however maybe a capitol airport should be designated that has a quicker fuel respawn rate or unlimited fuel.... Especially for testing. I noticed balance concerns without regards to fuel. I think voluntary balance is much more favorable to enforced balance.

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The reason you didn't see too many blue on is because Redfor ran them out of fuel. I played last night, and Bluefor pilots would log on, and then log off.

 

They were getting shot down so much by the SAMs our choppers were putting out it eventually drained all the fuel from the air quakers.

 

 

I disagree, it is far more fun with the shared assets. What makes Blue Flag -> Blue Flag to me is the lives, economy, base capturing, team work, etc... It is not the air-frame in which I do it.

 

 

I'll hit your points in order.

 

First point: The Ka-50 has always been this way. It sucks, and I would love for that not to be a thing, but even if it is or isn't a thing I personally still want to put the Ka-50 on Bluefor, and SA342 (all variants) on Redfor.

 

Second point: There is a great deal of resistance from Bluefor owned assets, far more than Redfor assets which in many cases don't have any defenses. Last night, 3 Ka-50's (including me), 2 25-T's, 2 Mi-8's, and a couple Mig-21's (and I'm probably forgetting people) attacked a fuel depot, and it wasn't enough to close it. Truth be told it should have been enough, but there are tons of hardened bunkers at those things, and it takes a high level of coordination not to hit the same target.

 

That said, I don't want AI added back because the AI locks your aircraft up from 3 million miles away while they're on the ground completely destroying any SA the Redfor craft have. They become the immediate threat regardless if a player craft is tracking you from 5 KM at your six.

 

Third point: Team stacking is almost always in favor of Bluefor. Take a look at the registered numbers. 100+ greater, that's huge! What's causing the low Bluefor numbers as the battle drags on is the fuel system being reintroduced. Essentially everyone on Bluefor is playing air quake, and running the bases out of gas.

 

Yesterday we saw many Bluefor pilots join, and exceed Redfor numbers, but it didn't last long because once they ran out of gas they left. They didn't bother to do supply runs, they just left.

Great points as normal.

The more we talk about this the more I'm starting to realize that maybe it's people not adjusting to the new rules and features. I think the fuel is a major part of Blue Flag and adds a new complexity that forces people to manage. Ok to allows for a new strategy of forcing airfields out of full before pressing, something they could happen in real life.

There are A10s and Mi8s on both teams.

I know i meant ideally .

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