Appeal for calm in the DCS F-16 community

It could be avoided if they release when a product is finished and tested. Then we know what we're buying.

wait what? ED is forcing you to buy the product before it is finished? Shame on them...

I just avoid hoggit now - that whole place starts to foam at the mouth each time changes are made.

But if you complain that they release it before it's finished then wait for it to be finished. Why do you drag us with you? By "us" I mean those who want to have the early access.

 

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I would patiently wait if everybody did. Since that's not how it works here. I'll buy EA. I like the plane too much to wait if I don't have to.

Indeed, certainly not an operationally valid loadout. However, after talking with the team yesterday, we'll probably allow it for those that want to be so inaccurate.

 

Thanks

How about the JASSM? Before it was estabilished by ED that it would be innacurate because it was like 6 months prior to the avionics upgrade for it and the JSOW, since you are probably allowing the tripe mavs

and the JSOW it looks like, any chance we will get to fire those sweet sweet JASSMs as well?

I just avoid hoggit now - that whole place starts to foam at the mouth each time changes are made.

I have gotten to that point as well, it really has become an awful place. I have never posted there but keep up on what is being said because news and information has sometimes been posted there first or just there instead of here. I wish ED would avoid Hoggit all together and strictly use these forums for any and all information.

But if you complain that they release it before it's finished then wait for it to be finished. Why do you drag us with you? By "us" I mean those who want to have the early access.

 

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I don't mean to speak for Buzz, but if I felt as he did, I wouldn't like all these people flying around having fun with a plane I really wanted and have to sit there and watch saying "Just wait till full release, just wait till full release..."

I'd guess that's a good portion of why people complain about EA (and this isn't a dig against Buzz). They really just want a complete product, but they don't want to see half the product being played, wish they were playing it, but feel that business model is the wrong way to go so don't want to support it. Better everyone suffers with them. :)

The only other reason I've seen is because it slows down or stops development on uncompleted modules when the team switches to a new one. Some teams have done that, and I get that frustration. But I have no evidence to suggest that that is happening with ED right now, as progress continues on the Hornet.

If they would get their act together before they announce a pre-order, this wouldn't be an issue.

Feels to me like they need a PMP framework overhaul...

No, JASSM is certainly out of the window for 2007 operations.

 

Thanks

Fair enough. JSOW + TERs for AGM-65s will keep us busy.

You'd swear money has already exchanged hands.

If they would get their act together before they announce a pre-order, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

Feels to me like they need a PMP framework overhaul...

I'd rather they be more transparent than less - my personal opinion. We also don't know what discussions they have behind the scenes and up to very recently the original list could have been "accurate" based on previous discussions.

I actually like how ED listens to the user base here when we provide valid information and they can adjust things to make them more authentic. If they kept everything close in we wouldn't have the chance to speak up until it could very well be too late.

You'd swear money has already exchanged hands.

Goodness gracious, I know! I fear for the world when the pre-sale actually does begin.

+1 for being calm and level headed. This is the famous and mighty F-16 Fighting Falcon we are talking about here...let us trust that ED will do it justice and get things right.

the perpetual outrage cycle

What? Where? All I notice is general excitement.

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They were really doing well, but it's become quite toxic of late, so ED as started to focus communications else where, I personally have been having good chats on places like Discord with users

 

Sadly Wags gave up on the for a while now and won't even read over there, I was a little more stubborn but the personal attacks, even in PMs there are too much now.

I bailed on Hoggit six months ago...it was genuinely making me miserable to even read stuff there, much less interact.

OK, so it's not just me, that makes me feel better. Funny thing about people, I seriously doubt anyone would go up to Wags at the upcoming convention and say the things that I've read. But when they can hide behind anonymity and not face any social consequences or encourage each other with Karma points people seem to lose their minds. Not a good reflection of character.

I don't say anything on forums that I wouldn't say to someone's face. You'd believe me if you knew me.

I was more referring to things like business practices, insulting people for their national identity etc. I appreciate people who are direct. I'm the same way.

Two of my professors were Russian. Some of the most brilliant mathematicians I've ever met. One was working on a textbook for Game Theory. Probably not what you think, it's related to economics, but the guy was absolutely brilliant. And he spoke 3 languages, could code, etc..

Fun fact, the math that US stealth technology is based on is derived from Russian mathematical theory. Ufimsetv? I'm sure I spelled it wrong.

They were really doing well, but it's become quite toxic of late, so ED as started to focus communications else where, I personally have been having good chats on places like Discord with users

 

Sadly Wags gave up on the for a while now and won't even read over there, I was a little more stubborn but the personal attacks, even in PMs there are too much now.

Dont get me wrong here, I dont want to defend any kind of toxic behaviour, esp. not personal insults and threats.

But on the other hand I would like to add that treating each other with respect is something that requires both sides to do exactly that.

Indeed, certainly not an operationally valid loadout. However, after talking with the team yesterday, we'll probably allow it for those that want to be so inaccurate.

 

Thanks

I'm really sorry to hear that.

Of all the reasons not to allow a feature, I thought, "Because you'll burn your elevators off, that's why" was about as good as it gets.

I simply don't know enough about the minutiae of (any) aircraft to make a call like this.

But I have been around long enough to know it's generally a losing strategy to appease immature temper tantrums. They always find something else to be outraged about, so better to stick to facts and reality and stand firm whenever you have the chance.

Anyhow, I'll be happy to fly the Falcon, and if 4 Mavs is the right number, 4 is what I'll load.

Easy solution for you, don't preorder or purchase until EA is over, but most of our customers want in on the journey of development.

Even though I 100% agree with your sentiment, it's phraseology like this that get's under people's skin.

Just cut everything off up to and including "...but..." and it'd be unassailably perfect.

but most of our customers want in on the journey of development.

+1

They were really doing well, but it's become quite toxic of late, so ED as started to focus communications else where, I personally have been having good chats on places like Discord with users

 

Sadly Wags gave up on the for a while now and won't even read over there, I was a little more stubborn but the personal attacks, even in PMs there are too much now.

I am glad to see you guys distancing yourselves.

True, I can only take so much, so for now, I can find better avenues to communicate, I a I know I have never said some of the things said to me, publically and privately...

 

I didnt give up easy either, and have the backing from my team and Wags.

This really infuriates and saddens me. Stay strong...never give up, never surrender!

I would hope that most of the DCS community is kind, respectful, and grateful for what ED has done for flight simming.