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Autohover??


ST0RM

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Tested: no problem with Autohover when performing a 2m 'hover check' in DCS 2.5.2.20143

 

Assuming you are in a stable hover (confirmed using ADI DOP and VVI), the most common cause of not being able to engage Autohover is the Fuel Control lever not being fully forward (Page UP).

 

Note: the Fuel Control can cause problems when mapped to an axis, so perhaps try - saturation x 95 and dead zone 5 to cure a spiky pot ?

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Tested: no problem with Autohover when performing a 2m 'hover check' in DCS 2.5.2.20143

 

Assuming you are in a stable hover (confirmed using ADI DOP and VVI), the most common cause of not being able to engage Autohover is the Fuel Control lever not being fully forward (Page UP).

 

Note: the Fuel Control can cause problems when mapped to an axis, so perhaps try - saturation x 95 and dead zone 5 to cure a spiky pot ?

 

Thanks Ramsay. I've never had an issue engaging prior, but will check. :thumbup:

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just found out that if the fuel lever is not set COMPLETELY forward during startup auto hover will not engage. Because I had a few startup with too fast spool-up resulting in the turbine shutting down I mapped the lever to a slider and set the position based on the needle position being between the two red markers. However because it wasn't FULLY forward the auto hover wouldn't work. You can actually hear a small clunk sound when it's in position. Worth checking to make sure...

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If you assign a game controller lever to the throttle, make sure you use about 5% deadzone at the top and bottom of the lever travel in DCS (axis settings). Otherwise, noise on your game controller (the game thinking the lever is moving slightly back and forth) will cause the Gazelle throttle to move off max, you'll hear the click, and several things will shut down including autopilot. You should see a warning light on the dash when this occurs.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Tried and tried yesterday to get auto hover to work . I'll try again today .

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Not much help I guess but I can confirm that Autohover still works for me on the open beta with the latest hotfix applied. One thing to note is that there is a difference between singleplayer and multiplayer, where the variables in singleplayer to get into autohover are more forgiving than the more strict variables in multiplayer from what I remember. I don't know in what kind of environment you are testing? Also make sure there are no errors in your gyro's if you do a manual start-up. You say you have trouble with all autopilot modes, hence why I would check your gyro's.

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Ya, nothing has changed with Auto-hover in recent releases.

 

Also, as far as I have seen, auto hover is the same for multi-player vs. single player. But I haven't fully tested the limits to confirm. I mean, I have just as much ease getting into auto-hover in both.

 

What _did_ change recently was the sensitivity of the throttle to causing a master caution (and auto-pilot warning light). It used to be, you could move the throttle just a little bit off max and there was some play in the lever before it would deactivate the auto-pilot system. But about a month back, a change was made where moving the throttle even the slightest amount immediately shuts down the auto-pilot. This is actually by plan because if the throttle is not 100%, then the Gazelle shuts down the AP modes on purpose.

 

So if you are have having trouble now, but didn't before, make 100% sure your throttle is all the way up. Remove all bindings for game controllers to move the throttle maybe to make sure and use the (what is it, the PgUp key?) to push the throttle to max. You should not see any warning lights on the dash (both the light panel as well as the master caution light). If you are still having trouble with auto-hover after checking these things, but you used to have no difficulty before, then I am not sure what to say. I don't think they changed anything else related to auto-pilot, auto-hover. Just the throttle setting thing I mention above.

 

I hope this helps.

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I can not get the camera to move with my joystick while in auto-hover. Am I missing something? It worked a while ago.

 

AFAIK it should work in SP (there are issues using multi-crew).

 

Have you enabled a 2nd joystick for the Camera in "Options/Special/SA342" and thus IIRC disabled the default ?

 

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No problem on my side. Could you please post a track?

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I find it imposible to hover with this thing these days :(

 

Auto Hover? Works fine although it's easier to manually hover more stable than in Auto Hover mode.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I find it imposible to hover with this thing these days :(

 

If you are talking about hovering manually (not engaging the autohover), you need to use magnetic brake so the SAS is not fighting you (for more help on auto-hover, read anyway as this applies to both). So, to hover manually with ease, get it close to a hover and tap the magnetic brake button. Don't press and hold - tap it. Adjust the hover and tap it again. Continue to make smaller and smaller adjustments and tap the magnetic brake with each adjustment. Eventually you will get the feel for getting it in a stable hover, hands off. It may drift slightly one way or the other as getting a perfect hover just with magnetic brake is difficult (as to be expected). But that's what the auto hover is for - so if you follow the above procedure, and you have 0 vertical speed as well, you should be able to enable auto-hover and have it work 100% every time. If it doesn't there is something else wrong like SAS is disabled. Check if there is a PA (french) or AP (english) message on your warning panel. This means the SAS or Autopilot function is disabled.

 

The key point here is the SAS is always trying to maintain a certain bank and pitch. By tapping the magnetic brake, it causes the SAS to maintain your current bank and pitch setting. It is similar to the auto-pilot modes on the KA-50. For a normal joystick, set a bank and pitch, tap magnetic brake, and let the stick go back to center (because it isn't a FFB stick). For FFB sticks, taping mag brake will hold your cyclic, but understand, the mag brake isn't so much holding the stick (like in the Huey) as it is holding the pitch and bank angle. There is, however, a bug where large changes in bank angle with a FFB stick will cause the FFB stick to jump too far left or right and flip the helicopter over. This issue does not exist for pitch changes - only bank changes. So I only do small bank adjustments with mag brake to prevent this, but I can get away with large pitch adjustments no problem. I can explain this issue further in another thread if needed.

 

Point is, if you don't tap magnetic brake, to hover, you will always be fighting the SAS. In fact, this is true in all flight modes for the Gazelle (hover, normal flight, turns, etc.). You should always set a bank and/or pitch and tap the magnetic brake to keep from fighting the SAS. I hardly ever use altitude hold or speed hold anymore because the SAS does such an excellent job of holding my chosen pitch during normal flight - when you tap the mag brake. This is exactly the issue everyone keeps complaining about with the Gazelle - fighting the SAS. But figure this technique out, and you'll love the Gazelle.

 

Back to hovering, for the collective, get a stable altitude and try not to adjust it anymore. The Gazelle should settle out riding on the pillow of air in ground effect if near the ground. If you are having difficulty with this, it is probably because you are over compensating with collective and oscillating up and down (pilot induced oscillation). Relax and make minimal and small collective adjustments and you'll see soon that you can ignore collective (assuming you are also not making huge pitch and bank changes of course.

 

If you are high in the air (no references to tell if you have come to a stop), turn the knob just below and to the right of the torque indicator fully clockwise. It will enable cross hairs on your attitude indicator. This is a doppler hover indicator (like in the Mi-8). Polychop added it earlier this year (thanks!!) so it is as yet undocumented. Pull your cyclic toward the lines and the lines should move to the center position. When the lines are centered, you have 0 ground speed. If the collective is also set to maintain 0 vertical speed, you are in a hover. You should be able to set the auto-hover switch and let go of everything having achieved a successful auto-hover state. Now you can set up an easy hover at 500m and pick your targets from a safe distance. Again, if you are fighting with SAS, use the magnetic brake as explained above in order to make this easier.

 

The Gazelle really is a joy to fly, and deadly - 2nd most deadly helicopter in DCS. It is the most maneuverable (though perhaps because you can do stuff that defies what a real Gazelle can or should do), but also so easy to get stable in flight or in a hover that once you figure out the above techniques, you'll wonder why you hated it before. Of course I know why people hate it sometimes. Because if you don't understand the above techniques, the SAS is a PITA as all it does is fight you.

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...

 

The Gazelle really is a joy to fly, and deadly - 2nd most deadly helicopter in DCS. It is the most maneuverable (though perhaps because you can do stuff that defies what a real Gazelle can or should do), but also so easy to get stable in flight or in a hover that once you figure out the above techniques, you'll wonder why you hated it before. Of course I know why people hate it sometimes. Because if you don't understand the above techniques, the SAS is a PITA as all it does is fight you.

 

Do you mean stuff like this?

 

 

But it is a lots of fun, short vidio here. :D

 

I normally fly with AP system off.

 

Nice write up by the way. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Note whilst the TRIM / MAG BRAKE function on the cyclic works, the TRIM / MAG BRAKE switch on the front dash does not seem to have any effect.

 

Minimal control movements of the cyclic are required to accurately fly this airframe... depending on physical set up think just a millimetre or two of movement - in real life you really have to look hard to see the cyclic move at all it is that sensitive. PC modelled it to reflect this.

 

Often a beginners biggest problem is over controlling the aircraft.

 

So be gentle, very gentle, very very very gentle. :smilewink:

 

I very rarely use the trim button function on the cyclic but that is personal preference as I do not find the SAS to be an issue.

 

BUT I do map a 4-way HAT switch on my cyclic to NOSE UP / NOSE DOWN / LEFT WING DOWN / RIGHTY WING DOWN and this I would strongly recommend as well as mapping the TRIM and TRIM RESET.

 

I would not recommend using curves.

 

Often with beginners using spring centred joysticks I recommend setting the Y AXIS of both PITCH and ROLL to 60% - 70% - this reduces sensitivity and then as they come familiar with the airframe take them both back towards the 100%..

 

From a hot start on the runway, if you have mapped a HAT as above, give 6 short 'pulses' back and 2 short 'pulses' right. (use your control indicator RCTL + ENTER to show a display giving the offset) Do not move your cyclic, give some right torque pedal and gently lift the collective bringing the airframe to a hover. You will have hardly have any movement. Gently accelerate and enjoy your flight - hit trim reset once you going.... this reset trim position will be good for around 150kph in straight and level flight... tap the HAT to adjust.....

 

Want to come to a hover, hit TRIM RESET, then on the HAT, 6 down and 2 right and slow down, centre your cyclic relaxing your hand.... you come to a perfect hover, of course use your collective to maintain height and torque for direction... Use your instruments to fine tune.

 

If you still have difficulty PM me and I will jump on a MP server somewhere with and get you sorted... it will only take a moment. I would advise joining an online DCS community, they will certainly help you progress..

 

Hope this helps some..


Edited by Gizzy

 

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I find it imposible to hover with this thing these days :(

 

Just a thought "these days" does that imply you used to be okay hovering? If so and your not using a Force Feedback joystick check that for what ever reason that the FFB option under Gazelle settings is not ticked.

 

This option can become enabled "randomly" during a DCS update and has caused many people to have problems flying the Gazelle.

 

As Gizzy indicates small movements of cyclic is all that is required indeed I use only a few mm movement* for most of my flying it really is more like "using the force" compared to other choppers.

 

*Most of the time in flight and hover the animation of the cyclic in the cockpit hardly moves and I really do throw the Gazelle around.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I did this way back when I first started flying helos.

Disable any/all cyclic curves, auto pilot systems, trim, and anything else that can change the feel /help you hover.

 

Seems counter intuitive, but the logic goes like this:

 

Firstly, you can't take full advantage of systems designed to assist a capable pilot in hovering if you aren't a capable pilot. (Not to doubt your skills here, I just mean that you can't perform the task at hand to a level with which you're satified)

Secondly, those system act as a crutch for those who lack the fundamentals of hovering a helo.

Thirdly, making it as difficult as possible (within reason) to hover will force you to develop the skill required.

 

Remember that's its actually harder in the sim as you don't have your natual physical sensation of balance to aid you, and have to go by sight alone.

 

Then, take some time to just practice hovering. Start with an object (somewhat) nearby. Hangars at the end of a long ramp work well for this.

Use them as a point of reference, and resist the urge to look at the ground directly in front of you.

Add ~5knots of wind, fly a heavy helo, whatever else you can to make it difficult.

 

Set aside any other goal, and just practice. Don't allow it to frustrate you, but remember that every second you spend not hovering, your brain is storing every mistake, and you will suddenly subconsciously be able to hover.

At some point, it will "click" and you'll be able to hover while holding a conversation with one eye closed while smoking a cigarette.(shame on you, you really should quit:lol:)

 

I'm not suggesting that something isn't broken, and that hovering this particular helo at this particular time is not more difficult than it should be.

But by doing all of this you'll get to the point that no matter how broken the FM is, you'll be able to handle hovering it.

 

But seriously, I use both a Warthog and an sidewinder ffb2, and I don't use curves for any module, except on rudder pedals as they are very coarse from the factory.

 

I've flown helps a lot with both sitcks and can tell you that especially with helps, all that curves do is mess with your subconscious/"muscle memory" ability to control the aircraft.

 

Anyway, to sum up the novel I just wrote,

 

Curves bad, practice good.

And even if it's broken, you can make it happen.

And also, I'll add that in the Gaz it's very important to have an almost perfect hover for autohover to come on, so that's the cause for the diatribe on hovering.

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The suggestions helped a little bit but still I find it too diffecult and stressful to continue use the helicopter.

 

So what do you use for control inputs? Your controls setup can impact badly especially on the Gazelle.

 

Do you have pedals, collective and cyclic input or maybe just a joystick only?

 

 

 

It's about as easy to hover as any other helicopter in DCS. :)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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