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My New Cyclic Build with Magnetic Brake Trim


molevitch

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amazing work.

my collectives and cyclics are just collecting dust.

im waiting for a descent two seat attack helicopter.

 

really would like a DCS module of the AH-1 cobra or AH-64 apache

will have to give the Mi-24P sometime after its release, wish it could have been the Mi-24V...

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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amazing work.

my collectives and cyclics are just collecting dust.

im waiting for a descent two seat attack helicopter.

 

really would like a DCS module of the AH-1 cobra or AH-64 apache

will have to give the Mi-24P sometime after its release, wish it could have been the Mi-24V...

 

Thanks Hannibal,

 

I too cannot wait for the Mi-24, don't mind which version really. I do hope that the multicrew system really comes together this year!

 

M

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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Though it is not completed yet, thanks to you, I was able to produce collectives so far.

Thank you very much.

 

Wow amazing print! Are there any plans/files available?

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Though it is not completed yet, thanks to you, I was able to produce collectives so far.

Thank you very much.attachment.php?attachmentid=169190&stc=1&d=1505425408

attachment.php?attachmentid=169191&stc=1&d=1505425406attachment.php?attachmentid=169192&stc=1&d=1505426056

 

WOW, that's amazing! Great looking result. How are you damping the collective axis?

 

Will you do the cyclic as well?

 

I look forward to seeing the next stage.

 

:thumbup:

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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amazing work.

my collectives and cyclics are just collecting dust.

im waiting for a descent two seat attack helicopter.

 

really would like a DCS module of the AH-1 cobra or AH-64 apache

will have to give the Mi-24P sometime after its release, wish it could have been the Mi-24V...

 

Hey Hannibal,

 

Dust off your collectives and come fly choppers with us over at BSD and 229th 1stAirCav.

 

May be no 2-seaters yet, but we do have a great time!

 

Mole

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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Hey Molevitch,

 

This is a really Great Work!!

 

:thumbup:

 

I'm not sure there is a good reliable collective on the market. If you choose to, this could become a hot item.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Thanks Stang,

 

Its an amateur build really, and I don't have tools and workshop to consider production for sale. I hope other builders here will get some tips and inspiration for their own pits.

 

:)

 

Mole

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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Wow amazing print! Are there any plans/files available?

 

Hi f4l0

Thank you

 

Some files may be released when completed. Parts used for collective friction are diverted because they use diverted parts, so there is no versatility.

 

WOW, that's amazing! Great looking result. How are you damping the collective axis?

 

Will you do the cyclic as well?

 

I look forward to seeing the next stage.

 

:thumbup:

 

Hi molevitch

Thank you

 

Collective dumping diverted friction plate of waste parts.

Turning the handle moves the plate and presses it to produce resistance.

attachment.php?attachmentid=169330&stc=1&d=1505668959

 

At the moment there is no plans to make cyclic.

Because the stick that I am currently using is using the one that combined G 940 and Warthog.

However, it may add an analog axis as it is not braked.:joystick:

attachment.php?attachmentid=169331&stc=1&d=1505668959

 

The next stage ... I am thinking a lot but I hear that it will take time because I have a lot of things I have to study.:book:

DSC_0352.thumb.JPG.a60ad97e2d6e06767ce1b0aa8f30ff52.JPG

DSC_0333.thumb.JPG.a0622194052a4dac5718a90971bb1787.JPG

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Hi f4l0

Thank you

 

Some files may be released when completed. Parts used for collective friction are diverted because they use diverted parts, so there is no versatility.

 

Hi molevitch

Thank you

 

 

Thanks! Looking really forward to 'build' my own collective but somehow never did the first step. Always was struggling how to build that 'lift' mechanic...

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The trimmer button releases the magnets so the stick goes loose. I have to centre it manually, there is no spring to bring it back to centre. I use the red diamond instrument indicator to check for true centre and keep it on most of the time.

 

So without pressing the trimmer the cyclic is in a fixed position, held by the force of the springs in the force gradients. I can make miniscule adjustments by pushing the stick against the springs resistance. But I can press the trim button and keep it pressed and simply move the stick all over as I please. Or I can do a momentary press to trim and release.

 

Hi molevitch

 

Inspiring work. Maybe I should sell my MSFFB2s and do something similar, although I probably wouldn't go to the expense of buying a real cyclic but just make a DIY one with tubing and my F16 FLCS grip.

 

One question, do your trimmer and collective brake switches still send a signal to DCS? Although your controls don't depend on DCS to hold them in place, I believe at least some of the helos (I only really have knowledge of the KA-50) depend on those signals for the correct operation of the autopilot/autohover systems.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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Though it is not completed yet, thanks to you, I was able to produce collectives so far.

Thank you very much.

 

I get the reference now for your collective. V-nice.

 

I've managed to land the Mi-8 a few times now, well just land it. :thumbup::D

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Hi molevitch

 

Inspiring work. Maybe I should sell my MSFFB2s and do something similar, although I probably wouldn't go to the expense of buying a real cyclic but just make a DIY one with tubing and my F16 FLCS grip.

 

One question, do your trimmer and collective brake switches still send a signal to DCS? Although your controls don't depend on DCS to hold them in place, I believe at least some of the helos (I only really have knowledge of the KA-50) depend on those signals for the correct operation of the autopilot/autohover systems.

 

Hi Doveman,

 

Long time! Yes, my MSFFB2 Frankenstick is now relegated to spare equipment. If you can get a real cyclic, it certainly has the "cool" factor....

 

My Trimmer and mag-brakes do not communicate with DCS. I did wonder if this was important or not.... So far it does not seem to matter, as the stick position is read by DCS once trimmed. I only just tried KA-50 with it last night for the first time, and did not yet try auto-hover with the mag-brake system. Interesting thought... The same question will apply to Gazelle I guess, and any other yet to come modules with autohover.

 

I will try it and report back. I have mostly been flying Mi-8 and Huey recently. I have Gazelle too but get pissed off with it, and Ka-50, well, its an old friend I just revisited for the first time in about a year.

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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Thanks! Looking really forward to 'build' my own collective but somehow never did the first step. Always was struggling how to build that 'lift' mechanic...

 

What do you mean by " 'lift' mechanic" ? Maybe I can help... as somebody with no mechanical experience, but did it anyway!:music_whistling:

 

M

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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  • 2 months later...
Hi. How do I finish the project ?. You finished it?. Greetings.

 

Hi Ruso,

 

Yes, I have been flying with it for about 6 months, all working fantastic.

 

How can I help you? What do you need to know?

 

M

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow, very exciting build! I’m glad my meandering brought me here.

My own plans are for a force feedback stick (for fixed wing and rotary), but this has given me some food for thought.

 

Molevitch, I’m curious about your experience with overclocking your 6700 and it’s impact on framerate with CV1, but since it’s OT, I’ll PM you, if that’s Ok?


Edited by Ainuke

i9 11900K :: 32GB G.Skill Trident DDR4-3200 :: Corsair water loop ::  Samsung 2TB 980pro nvme :: Gigabyte Aorus 3090 Waterblock :: Gigabyte Aorus Z590 Xtreme MoBo :: HP Reverb G2 VR

VKB Gunfighter flightstick and collective :: TM Warthog throttle & MFDs :: MFG Crosswind pedals :: 5 Dayton Audio bass shakers on 5.1 home theater amp

Win10 Pro x64 :: DCS 2.7 (Huey & P-51, mainly; have all the other rotors, but haven't explored their depths as yet)

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Hi Molevitch.

I have some questions.

1. Why didn't you use a single electromagnet for both axles?

2. Why did you use that model and not this one (https://www.amazon.es/SODIAL-Electroiman-Levantamiento-Electrico-20x15mm/dp/B00HUHC87Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1514915745&sr=8-5&keywords=electroiman)?

3. When the trimmer is pressed, does the joystick have any type of retention, or does it fall off on its own?

4. I'm not sure how you solved the problem of Hall sensors with the interference from the electromagnet.

 

Thank you for everything and your tutorial.


Edited by ruso
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Hi Ruso,

 

1. I did not see a practical way to use a single magnet for both axes. Although I have set up the force-gradients in parallel, when both are at extremes of pitch and roll, the plates to which the magnets grip can be quite separated. Also, you will see that with the bell-crank to turn the direction of the roll axis through 909 deg, to sit parallel with the pitch axis, the magnet plate is some 10cm further behind the roll axis magnet.

 

2. First one I found that looked right.... :noexpression:

 

3. When the trimmer is pressed the stick goes loose... but you have to hold it to press the trimmer, so you are controlling it. If you turn off the magnet circuit while not holding the stick, yes it flops down. But also with it trimmed, you can move the cyclic against the resistance of the springs on the force gradients. This gives very fine movement control. It is great for flying the gazelle, and also can be used to good effect in all other choppers for comfortable cruise flying.

 

4. I too was worried by the possibility of interference for the Hall sensors. I mounted the magnets which act on the Halls in plastic blocks, which are glued to the cyclic near the pivots, to avoid any direct transfer of magnetism via the electro-mags through the metal hardware. The magnetic fields of the electro-mags seem to be sufficiently removed from the Halls to not impact. Also, I guess the Halls are within those magnetic fields anyway, but there are the 2 x Neodymium magnets much closer to the sensors. I am no physicist. It works!

 

I am planning to write and illustrate a full instructional document of this build, simply because so many have asked about it. I don't quite know when it will be written, hopefully in the coming months. I will post it as a Dropboxed download when it is done. It will include a shopping list, a tool list, etc, as well as some drawings and photos needed. Scales and measures will not be included, as everyone will end up sourcing slightly differing components I am sure!

 

Good luck and Happy New Year!,

 

Mole

Hi Molevitch.

I have some questions.

1. Why didn't you use a single electromagnet for both axles?

2. Why did you use that model and not this one (https://www.amazon.es/SODIAL-Electroiman-Levantamiento-Electrico-20x15mm/dp/B00HUHC87Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1514915745&sr=8-5&keywords=electroiman)?

3. When the trimmer is pressed, does the joystick have any type of retention, or does it fall off on its own?

4. I'm not sure how you solved the problem of Hall sensors with the interference from the electromagnet.

 

Thank you for everything and your tutorial.

Jan18-update-maint001.thumb.jpg.cec569c8aaf5df5dd96b7d6c9b4a7f30.jpg

Jan18-update-maint002.thumb.jpg.44a1dec5fef302334c361b6714a2e7c5.jpg

Jan18-update-maint003.thumb.jpg.e96687a23dbb6757ade737da52e12c4b.jpg

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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Cyclic Collective release

 

Thanks for your thread, it's given me inspiration to add a magnetic Collective release to my Lynx collective. I didn't know these existed until I bought the collective stick and wondered what the button was. I've ordered the electromagnet and it should be a fairly easy addition - the Lynx collective already has a N/C contact so I will take a 12V supply from the PC PSU and just wire it through the button.

collective.thumb.jpg.b0fa797cf08d13b4871379cf2b9149e9.jpg

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Collective Brake

 

Hi Bacongrabber,

 

Yes, I used the same principle for my collective as for the cyclic in the end. Originally I had a fixed bar and magnet block, so when it was locked there was no movement. Collective brake was solid. This led to some nasty clunky jerky movements when released.

 

I recommend using the same spring controlled damper set up as the cyclic. Then you have subtle movement capability in the collective while braked. Easy to trim out and cruise, and still make subtle adjustments. Excellent also for hover control.

 

Good luck,

 

Mole

 

Thanks for your thread, it's given me inspiration to add a magnetic Collective release to my Lynx collective. I didn't know these existed until I bought the collective stick and wondered what the button was. I've ordered the electromagnet and it should be a fairly easy addition - the Lynx collective already has a N/C contact so I will take a 12V supply from the PC PSU and just wire it through the button.

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

My guess on the redundancy is one set to trigger system the othe to light up a light or that’s how I woUld use it

BlackeyCole 20years usaf

XP-11. Dcs 2.5OB

Acer predator laptop/ i7 7720, 2.4ghz, 32 gb ddr4 ram, 500gb ssd,1tb hdd,nvidia 1080 8gb vram

 

 

New FlightSim Blog at https://blackeysblog.wordpress.com. Go visit it and leave me feedback and or comments so I can make it better. A new post every Friday.

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  • 6 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Very nice project.I wan to ask you something.I can not understand how you installed the potensiometers.I you can help me.

 

hi Sinuos,

 

Sorry for the late reply! When you say potentiometers, which ones do you mean?

 

On my rig I used one potentiometer in the handle of the collective for the twist throttle. Otherwise, I used Hall sensors for the pitch and roll axes of the cyclic, and for the collective lever angle.

 

This was done with Halls mounted on some kind of small brackets near the centre of rotation and with magnets set up to move toward or away from the Hall as the stick is moved in those axes.

 

I also see you have joined 229th. If you want to discuss more, happy to talk over a Discord voice channel there.

 

Yours,

 

Mole

SCAN Intel Core i9 10850K "Comet Lake", 32GB DDR4, 10GB NVIDIA RTX 3080, HP Reverb G2

Custom Mi-24 pit with magnetic braked cyclic and collective. See it here: Molevitch Mi-24 Pit.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.blacksharkden.com

bsd sig 2021.jpg

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