Reverb high CPU and GPU frame time - UNPLAYABLE

Hi All,

 

After reading through the forum and having no luck applying existing responses, I thought I would write my own asking for help.

 

I was recently gifted the HP Reverb Pro to complement my DCS gaming experience. I found Thud’s instructions on Thud’s VR4DCS here https://vr4dcs.com/2019/09/10/reverb-settings-for-dcs/ and followed it as closely as I possibly could. The only reason why I have not followed the instructions 100% was due to software version differences and some options no longer being available or having been moved (e.g. SteamVR’s recent update etc). I attach screenshots of my settings as per Thud’s advice. Please note that with the pre-rendered frames setting in Nvidia Control Panel I tried it with both 3 as per Thud’s instructions and 4 as per Lukas’ instructions (more on this below).

 

These instructions were OK for single-player instant action type of missions. However, as soon as I try to get onto a multiplayer server – where I spend most of my time, I get massive frame drops and huge CPU and GPU frame times. I also noticed on fpsVR that there was no reprojection information available – as though it was not enabled despite having uncommented the applicable line as per Thud’s instructions.

 

Below is an example of my experience. This is not the worst it has been though.

After several weeks of dealing with what is by most definitions unplayable and reading that people with lesser spec. gaming rigs enjoy a smooth and seamless experience, I decided to look further. I came across Lukas S. / Wolta’s tutorial for optimising VR on the following YouTube link:

 

I followed Lukas’ instructions as prescribed, but that’s when things got really interesting… My FPS dropped as low as 7 and CPU frametime rose to above 1,000ms! The game was literally unplayable. I spent a bit of time troubleshooting it including reading all of Lukas’ YouTube video comments with no luck before decided to roll back to Thud’s original instructions. I uninstalled DCS and reinstalled it. I reapplied Thud’s instructions and am back to the practically unplayable state again.

 

Looking at my system specifications below, you can see that I am not using a potato for a computer – literally every other non-VR game (including DCS) is seamless at max settings. No matter what the game with at LEAST 60 FPS on more demanding games set to the absolute maximum values.

 

I am stuck with what I can do as there is an overwhelming amount of options to change and I am also puzzled with the lack of reprojection display and if this is causing the issue.

 

I would be very grateful if anyone could please help me out with this.

 

For info, my rig is:

VR: HP Reverb Pro

CPU: Intel i9-9900KS running at 5.0MHz

GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 TI FTW3 Ultra 11GB

RAM: 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3600C17Q – set to 3600MHz in BIOS

MB: MSI MEG Z390 Godlike

Game drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD

PSU: Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 1000W

Windows 10 version: Pro, build 1909

WMR (Windows 10 version)

WMR for SteamVR BETA

SteamVR Beta

DCS version: 2.5.6 OpenBeta

fpsVR

Launch method: “Launch SteamVR in Steam VR Mode” (although I have tried other modes also)

Major FPS hogs are the Visib. Range (I have mine at Mid on 1080ti), Shadows past Mid (you're fine there), Terrain Object Shadows (I never went past Flat only) and MSAA.

 

If I were you I would try to lower Visib. Range (Med) and Terrain Object Shadows (Flat Only), and completely disable MSAA in the Nvidia settings (Antialiasing - Setting), also drop Pixel Density to 100% for now.

 

If that brings the frames up (should be >40fps) increase the PD to around 150% and only then start figuring out what of the others you can push higher.

Hi mate,

 

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

I've applied your suggestions (please see attachments) and while there was an improvement, it was very minor. As you can see, with the settings reduced I am barely over 30FPS and still have a very high CPU frametime.

 

Still no reprojection display.

 

I could keep bumping down all the settings, but then where do I stop? And this is with a 2080Ti - where older setups yield far better results. I'm totally lost for words...

Edited February 23, 2020 by dukman83

Try my settings, as below, and work your way up from there. If that doesn't work, try turning of hyper threading in bios. You could also try setting processor affinity to physical rather than virtual cpu cores:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118535

 

Looking at your vrfps setting, you are using a ton of ram! What the heck do you have running in the back ground?

 

And try 2.5.5 the 2.5.6 beta has shed loads of reports of poor perf both in and out of vr

Edited February 23, 2020 by speed-of-heat

Hi stuartson,

 

Thank you very much for your help!

 

I aligned my settings with six out of the seven screenshots. Picture 3 was very difficult to read.

There were slight differences between your NVCP and mine, but I aligned it as best as possible to yours. Please see the attached images of my settings.

 

As you can see, there is almost no improvement in the frametimes and FPS. It is still very jittery and slow, and it looks as though I will need to continue with your additional suggestions (e.g. hyperthreading and CPU affinity).

 

With regards to hyperthreading; could you please explain what it does in regards to DCS VR? Does disabling it disadvantage other games or processes?

 

Additionally, out of curiosity; what frametimes and FPS are you getting with those settings?

 

Thanks again

Edited February 23, 2020 by dukman83

Asus AURA rgn lightning service, is this service running on your PC OP?? if so try and kill it and see if your performance gets better

hyper threading first; with some applications typically not games it enables more efficient use of the cpu's cores establishing an additional logical core for each physical core, the problem with some older games (which DCS really is)is that it can swap between a physical and a logical core on the same physical core meaning you don't get any benefit but you do loose a bunch of processing cycles as things swap from one "CPU" to a CPU and back again, so the performance hit can be quite bad.

 

My frame times are as below on 2.5.5

 

and as a comparison on 2.5.6 you get this (this was in the air on a free flight instant action, in an Hornet), straight and level nothing fancy:

 

 

 

 

it gets considerably worse the lower i go and also if i add mirrors back in. but the fram time differences are still significant.

 

The thing I cant figure out is why you are using nearly all of your RAM 24.8 of 31.9Gb ... you must have some huge process running so i wonder if that is taking some of your CPU cycles away. Or if you are spending a lot of time page file swapping, are you running on an SSD? or HDD? do you know where your pagefile is ?

Edited February 23, 2020 by speed-of-heat

@dukman83 can you show me a screen shot of your task manager in game ?

I have close to the same hardware:

9900KS@5.2

2080ti overclocked

32Gb@3200.

Two 970 sticks, one for OS and one as game drive.

 

I would start with checking the computer itself, it may concern hardware or BIOS settings and also trouble with drivers for GPU etc. Easiest way to check it all might be a test like 3d mark or something like it.

 

Next thing(when hardware+windows & drivers are secured, I’d lower the settings to se that it can run ok on low settings. If it cant, DCS might be broken.

Supersampling takes a lot of power so just should start with 100%.

Pre load radius in DCS should be maxed out, it makes the work easier(not the other way around).

 

[Edit] I havent disabled hyperthreading as I use the computer for other demanding purposes where its good. I have quite good fps.

 

We could help with making reference tests like 3d mark or something like that.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Gunnars Driver

Hi stuartson and The_Nephilim

 

stuartson,

 

Thanks very much for getting back to me so quickly and for the detailed explanation!

 

I am running a Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD.

I am not familiar with page file swapping, I'm sorry... What is that?

 

Please see the attached screenshot following disabling hyper threading and the task manager in-game with running processes. It looks worse to me...?

 

I also noticed a comment "Static1" on the top middle of my screen after matching your settings the first time - does that mean anything to you?

 

I will also have a detailed read on the CPU affinity link you sent first thing tomorrow morning.

 

The_Nephilim, there is no Asus AURA rgb lightning service running in task manager.

 

Thanks again guys!

The current 2.5.6 open beta has serious performance issues, you may try to convert back to 2.5.5 open beta to get much better frametimes.

if you only have one drive, and you don't know what a pagefile is its likely not been fiddled with, leave it that way ;) Its a function of how windows manages memory between RAM and the hard drive, leave alone :)

 

Static 1 is a bug, in 2.5.6.x at the moment its not always present...

 

if you click on the RAM % we should see what is using the memory (it should order it by the most used) lso if you can grab a shot, of startup and services

 

The current 2.5.6 open beta has serious performance issues, you may try to convert back to 2.5.5 open beta to get much better frametimes.

 

+1 to that.

 

IMO, there is no poiunt in trying tweak settings etc. in this current state of 2.5.6. Sure, at times, when flying around, the performance can seem to be the same as 2.5.5 with the same settings. However, there are many situations and locations where 2.5.6 is unplayable in VR. Frame rate is bogged down by massive CPU frame times, and I feel we just need to wait on ED to sort this out, which I'm sure they will sooner rather than later.

If you like to have the frame rate mostly over 45fps, 150% SS is quite high, even with that hardware and 2.5.5.

 

Suggest to make sure the H/W+windows works as it should and after that use low settings to see that the framrate is close to what we other get.

If you like to have the frame rate mostly over 45fps, 150% SS is quite high, even with that hardware and 2.5.5.

 

Suggest to make sure the H/W+windows works as it should and after that use low settings to see that the framrate is close to what we other get.

 

I disagree with that. 150% is only equivalent to a PD of 1.2. Not that much really, especially with his hardware.

 

I run with 150% and have no issues with 45 fps rock solid on 2.5.5 on pretty high settings.

 

I say again, this is a 2.5.6 issue that needs fixing, and I’m sure ED will do it.

i'm with imacken, in terms of perf... but i still want to know whats eating just under half of his ram because its not DCS ...

With the settings presented in OP at least my 9900KS/2080ti takes a noticable hit from SS150%.

 

I say that still you should make sure the hardware and windows works as it should.

Steam have a free version of VRmark( https://store.steampowered.com/app/464170/VRMark/ ). I think you only can run the orange room for free, but it will show if something is major ****** up.

I get around 14300p with 9900KS@5.2 and the 2080ti a bit overclocked. I think it was around 13700 with CPU@5ghz and 2080ti at stock speed. You should get somewhere around this value.

If the result is much lower there might be a graphic driver problem, or something like that.

 

I still, for test, suggest lowering the SS to 100%. Increasing the preload radius to max, reducxing the tree visibility and cluttder grass to a quite low value.

Also, terrain textures to low, lower visibility range to lowewr than ultra. Shadows takes some performance so Id say ”flat” for the test.

Smoke and chimney to lowest and anisotropic filtering to off or 2x.

 

About fpsVR:

CPU frametime - Max. CPU frametime for last 30 vsync intervals. CPU frametime includes:

- Compositor and 3D scene work. The cpu timing here does not capture any parallel work being performed (e.g. on application\'s main thread)

 

We dont see all stuff that load your CPU, but if you get a very high number on frame time on fpsVR, it has something to do with the DCS and/or VR software. Cause other tasks dont get into the fpsVR counting.

 

Im away from home but with my settings I hade reached around 10.7Gb in the videocards RAM and for some gaming around 26-27 Gb of RAM, still with no problem at all and smoot gaming:

%5Bimg%5D[/img]

For VR + DCS you can not just put every setting high and think it will run smooth even with the best hardware.

 

If not trying with low settings that we know should work fine, you might end up newer seeing the real problem. Im a also a bit suspicious about some of the override settings in nvidia control panel. Some stuff might load the CPU, despite you dont think it should.

I say again, this is a 2.5.6 issue that needs fixing, and I’m sure ED will do it.

I think this is the correct advice, you should try the 2.5.5 stable version first before tinkering with all kinds of different setting combinations. A lot of us have stuttering and fps issues with the current 2.5.6 beta.

Hi guys,

 

Thank you all very for your input, I really appreciate each and every one of your advice!

 

Here’s a quick summary of things done so far under your collective guidance:

 

Implement shdwp’s recommendations:

•Reduce visibility range to Medium - (post #2)

•Set shadows to Mid - (post #2)

•Set Terrain object shadows - (post #2)

 

Implement stuartaston’s recommendations:

•Copy stuartson’s personal settings - (post #4)

•Disable hyper threading in BIOS - (post #4)

•Revert to 2.5.5 - (post #4)

 

Implement Gunnars Driver’s recommendations:

•Reduce both global and DCS specific VRSS to 100% (post #9)

 

Still to do:

 

Implement stuartaston's recommendations:

•Set processor affinity to physical cores (6 and 7 as per SkateZilla’s post #1 using the URL stuartaston provided in abovementioned post) - (post #4)

 

Implement Gunnars Driver’s recommendations:

•Benchmark CPU/GPU/RAM – looking for a good free benchmarking tool (post #9)

•Reduce settings until reaching a playable game (post #9)

•Max out pre-load radius? (post #9)

•Run VRmark (using URL Gunnars Driver’s provided) – (post #17)

•Reducing the tree visibility, clutter grass to a quite low value, terrain textures to low, lower visibility range to lower than ultra, shadows to ”flat”, smoke and chimney to lowest and anisotropic filtering to off or 2x. – (post #17)

 

@stuartaston, I do use more than one m.2 drive. I use one for my System and DCS is installed on another one. Does the pagefile still come into effect?

 

Thanks for the info on “Static1”, good to know!

 

Please see the attached fpsVR following revert to 2.5.5 and Task Manager showing startup and services whilst DCS is running as well as a few other things which could be of interest including VRmark results as per Gunnar’s Driver’s recommendation.

 

Looking at the results, it looks as though there is a significant improvement following the most recent changes which were the reduction of Global VRSS to 100% and reverting to DCS 2.5.5.

 

What is the collective opinion on these results? It is significantly better, but is it where it could be as far as my rig setup in comparison to other PC setups?

 

I will continue to work my way down the list of things remaining to do as per your suggestions and will report as soon as possible!

 

Thank you all again for your help!

Edited February 25, 2020 by dukman83

Thats a good start!

The VRMark test shows that your hardware, windows and drivers run as they should. No probs there. ( Traveling, using phone so I didnt managed to really see the other pic.

@stuartaston, I do use more than one m.2 drive. I use one for my System and DCS is installed on another one. Does the pagefile still come into effect?

 

 

provided you have jut let windows do its thing it should be fine...

Still to do:

 

A good plan!

 

I think one main goal should be to see if you by lowering the settings can get down to decent CPU frame times that’s comparable with other ppl with similar hardware( I think you should be able to drop it down to around 10ms). If this isnt possible, there might be a problem in either DCS or maybe Steam VR software. As VRMark use part of the same software(Steam), it then might point out DCS.

 

This should result in either needing to do a new install of for example DCS or steamVR software etc, or if no such problems, start from the ”bottom” with low settings and work yourself up increasing settings step by step until you meet the limit between your hardware and your own personal reference for what you think is a playable level of smooth gaming / enough picture quality. We know that we cant put all settings to max +high SS and still have 90fps/45fps all the time.

 

[Edit]I think it would be interresting to see the load on each core of the CPU during DCS gaming. You fint it via the Task Manager and system recources or somethinh like that(not at home so...).

 

Heres a post with this shown for my computer, I think that pic is when I used Oculus. With Reverb I get higher GPU load and a bit lower CPU load.

The load is on the highest numbered physical CPU core in the system by default in DCS. Some load will be on the next highest core(I think its mainly the sound processing). We excpect to see a similar pattern in your system if everything is as it should.

By the way, you havent mixtured with project lasso or in anyway hampered the standard DCS threads-to-core-settings?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4163309&postcount=288

Edited February 25, 2020 by Gunnars Driver

Thanks guys!

 

@stuartaston,

provided you have jut let windows do its thing it should be fine...

thanks for clarifying!

 

 

@Gunnars Driver, did you want the specific screenshot of Task Manager with the game running as well as the Project Lasso I provided earlier?

 

Until this latest tweak I have not messed with PL in any way. In fact, no changes have been made between my last post and this response.

 

The most recent tweak (done just before this post) was the change of priority of DCS.exe to “Realtime”. I noticed that there was some improvement following that change.

Please see the attached screenshot of the results.

 

The next thing I tried was to set the CPU affinity to CPU 6 and 7 as per stuartaston’s recommendation in post #4. This did not appear to be helpful – in fact, somewhat worse?

I reverted to Priority "Realtime" and affinity to all CPUs.

Please see the attached second screenshot appropriately titled.

 

Another thing to note is (I probably haven’t mentioned this earlier) that this is a fresh install of DCS. As part of my original troubleshooting I totally uninstalled it and re-downloaded it.

 

Any further thoughts/recommendations?

 

In the meantime, I will keep going down the list of TO-DOs unless you have any further advice?

Thanks guys!

The next thing I tried was to set the CPU affinity to CPU 6 and 7 as per stuartaston’s recommendation in post #4. This did not appear to be helpful – in fact, somewhat worse?

I reverted to Priority "Realtime" and affinity to all CPUs.

Please see the attached second screenshot appropriately titled.

 

realistically you need at least 3 cores, make sure they are physical cores, typically physical cores are every other core starting at 0, so 6 and 7 are the same core ... im not sure how process lasso and core affinity will interact, i would use one or the other TBH

 

https://www.gfsg.co.uk/affinitymask.aspx?SubMenuItem=utilties maybe helpful in getting the mask right

Hi mate, thanks for the info!

 

Out of curiosity, what is the third core required for by DCS? I understand by previous posts that one core is for the game and the other for the sound.

 

Also, I did a bit of googling and couldn't find exactly which cores are physical and which are logical for my specific CPU. If it is safe to assume that generally all multi-core CPUs structured from core 0->n where the first core is physical and the next is logical, would you recommend DCS to be set to cores 3, 5 and 7 in order to utilise three physical cores?