Broken tracks + Jester/Radar issues

First off, let me just say that the tomcat module is amazing, I'm absolutely in love with it, you did an amazing job.

I've been flying the tomcat during the free trial and things have worked fine, for the most part.

However I've encountered some really nasty issues, which I don't see reported anywhere, so here I go:

• All my tomcat tracks were corrupted
  I couldn't get a single valid track (this happened both in SP and MP).
  Specifically, the plane would just start veering off course, completely disregarding what I actually did in the mission, pitching up and doing loops, eventually crashing into the ground/sea.
  Also, Jester menu would get "stuck" during the replay, blocking the view (looks like Jester menu interaction isn't properly "recorded" in tracks)
  I probably should've kept some of these corrupted tracks, but I was so pissed I deleted them all :doh:
   
  They were useless anyway (at least I thought so)
   
   
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• Jester seems to be bugged in terms of radar/target management.
  His first TWS Auto interactions seem to work fine, but as the situation gets "complicated", serious problems start appearing.
  For instance, Jester will arbitrarily start auto-locking distant contacts, even when there are other radar contacts on the nose which are way closer (even hot ones).
  Note that I'm not talking about DL contacts, I'm talking about contacts detected by my own radar (upper bracket)... they're definitely on Jester's screen (I'm quite certain of this because we're sharing it), but he simply ignores them.
   
  As a workaround, I try to "reset" Jester by commanding him to go radar silent or by switching to PAL. Sometimes this is enough to make him "see reason", but other times he'll keep locking on no-factor contacts, forcing me to go defensive without shooting.
   
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• PAL gave me a couple of "fake locks" yesterday
  As I understand it, the moment PAL gets a lock, it means a target has been detected within 15nm (it's an STT lock).
  Any phoenix launched under PAL lock should guide towards the target as it comes off the rails, right? I mean, this is how it normally works for me.
  Well, yesterday I got a couple PAL locks and the phoenixes simply went up to space, without tracking.
  Almost seemed like PAL was giving me invalid locks, somehow (Jester was also acting up, locking on to a really distant target, off to the side... it definitely felt like my radar was fundamentally bugged).
  Oddly enough, the third time I got a PAL lock, things went back to normal and I got my kill, pretty weird stuff.
  (And yes, my phoenixes were ready, I didn't forget to prep them)
  

Unfortunately, like I mentioned, I can't provide tracks because they were all corrupted.

Thank you. Can you explain for your second point what you mean with "lock"? As there is no lock in TWS really.

I meant that Jester (or the radar) will sometimes bug distant, non-factor targets, in the presence of bogeys on the nose, which are way closer (even hot ones).

I guess it's a TWS Auto issue, but Jester should be "smart" enough to see the problem and work on the nearest bogeys first.

Images are worth a thousand words, I guess (a couple of Photoshop edits, just to illustrate the problems I found.

EDIT: Ignore the symbology, just imagine that TWS Auto/Jester are bugging the farthest bogey only, ignoring the two closest ones on the nose):

I think there should be a Jester TWS menu, just like the STT menu currently implemented.

Pilots should be able to command Jester to switch between TWS contacts, without having to STT lock them.

I

I think there should be a Jester TWS menu, just like the STT menu currently implemented.

Pilots should be able to command Jester to switch between TWS contacts, without having to STT lock them.

A key-binding to instruct Jester to command a "Next Launch" would do the trick.

@Bearfoot

That would be very helpful, yes, but extra functionality would still be needed.

I honestly don't get why there's no TWS menu for Jester, given that it's the primary radar mode for the tomcat.

@IronMike

Btw, I forgot to mention another problem I found.

Jester/TWS Auto will also bug known friendly contacts (provided by AWACS, for instance), wasting precious time and creating potential blue on blue situations.

If Jester is smart enough to tease us with his witty comments, he should also be smart enough to avoid bugging low priority bogeys and known friendlies :D

PAL gave me a couple of "fake locks" yesterday

Could those be ships? It's normal for the Pulse mode to detect distant ships on a sea.

I meant that Jester (or the radar) will sometimes bug distant, non-factor targets, in the presence of bogeys on the nose, which are way closer (even hot ones).

 

I guess it's a TWS Auto issue, but Jester should be "smart" enough to see the problem and work on the nearest bogeys first.

 

Images are worth a thousand words, I guess (a couple of Photoshop edits, just to illustrate the problems I found):

 

 

 

 

 

I think there should be a Jester TWS menu, just like the STT menu currently implemented.

Pilots should be able to command Jester to switch between TWS contacts, without having to STT lock them.

I don't see anything wrong in these pics. The radar is just searching straight ahead and is not locking/bugging anyone. What makes you think it does? :huh:

@draconus

Not likely, phoenixes went up to space when they left the rails.

Also, the closest sea in that direction was the Caspian sea, not included in PG map ;)

@QuiGon

Don't take the pics literally (ignore the symbology), they're just dirty Photoshop edits I made in a rush, with material I had at hand (ie Chuck's Guide), only to illustrate the fundamental problem.

Just imagine that TWS Auto/Jester are ignoring the two obvious bogeys ahead and bugging/assigning first launch priority to the farthest bogey.

If you were doing RIO, you'd deal with the bogeys directly ahead first, right? That's what TWS/Jester aren't doing, which is a really nasty problem (aggravated by the lack of TWS menu for Jester).

@QuiGon

 

Don't take the pics literally, they're just dirty Photoshop edits I made in a rush, with material I had at hand (ie Chuck's Guide), only to illustrate the fundamental problem.

 

Just imagine that TWS Auto/Jester are ignoring the two obvious bogeys ahead and bugging/assigning first launch priority to the farthest bogey.

Those pictures aren't from you? Well then we can only make guesses and I can guess that there is a pretty good explanation for this behaviour then:

Assigning target priorities is not done by the RIO, but by the AWG-9 itself. It does the job quite well and if it assigns a higher prioirity (smaller number) to a contact further away than others it usually does so with good reason! Usually because the more distant target is hot, while the closer target is cold, meaning the more distant target is deeper inside your Dynamic Launch Zone than the closer target.

@Quigon

I couldn't use screenshots of my own tracks because they were corrupted, like I already mentioned.

I've already explained the issue quite well, not going to engage in a pointless argument over it, with someone who wasn't in the cockpit with me when this happened (no offence).

No, QuiGon, there wasn't a good reason for TWS/Jester to start with the most distant bogeys (I think those were tankers/AWACS, on top of it), it felt more like sabotage, not like an intended feature. :cry:

I was engaging vipers and jeff coming from Bandar Abbas, TWS was bugging the AWACS at Fin (or the tanker at Jiroft, which is even worse. At one point it was bugging a contact 170+ nm away... this is unjustifiable) and Jester did nothing to correct the situation.

I had to go defensive without foxing on them several times, because TWS wasn't working and Jester wasn't doing his job (I really wanted to eject him after the third attempt :lol:)

Tomcat needs a TWS menu for Jester, or a "Next Launch" command at the very least (which does allow RIO to modify the target priorities created by the radar).

@Quigon

 

I couldn't use screenshots of my own tracks because they were corrupted, like I already mentioned.

 

I've already explained the issue quite well, not going to engage in a pointless argument over it, with someone who wasn't in the cockpit with me when this happened (no offence).

I'm sorry, but you have not explained it well, because you're describing things that don't exist in the Tomcat ("bugging targets", which is something that exists in the F-16 and other planes, but not in the Tomcat), so it is not really clear what exactly happened in your case.

This does indeed make it at least rather difficult to talk about the supposed issue, if not pointless as you said yourself. I was just trying to give an explanation to what might have been going on there, but without any pics/clips/tracks or at least a precise description of the events it is just poking in the dark.

I thought he explained it well QuiGon. It's fairly simple. Hardcard had two hot bogies heading his way and Jester (or the radar) decided to target the AWACS way off in the distance. What was the bigger threat? The two bogies flying towards him at mach 1 or the far away AWAC?

I was engaging vipers and jeff coming from Bandar Abbas, TWS was bugging the AWACS at Fin (or the tanker at Jiroft, which is even worse. At one point it was bugging a contact 170+ nm away... this is unjustifiable) and Jester did nothing to correct the situation.

The enemies were close and you were still in 200nm search?

Are you sure those two were already radar contacts or merely datalinked?

@draconus

Nope, I had told Jester to search 100nm.

Regardless, TWS Auto decided to start with a contact at 170+ nm that I couldn't even see on HSD, since the scale was set to 100nm.

This happened in the worst possible moment, ofc, when I finally had the enemy AWACS within 50nm (right ahead) and my launch window was closing (due to SA-10 in the area)... gotta love Jester ;)

As for the bogeys ahead, brackets were on top, so they were definitely radar contacts, not DL contacts.

(I watched the TacView track afterwards, those were a couple of vipers and a jeff, like I said in my previous comment).

@solidGad

I think he understood just fine, but he seemed more interested in patronizing me than in investigating the issue.

It's ok, no hard feelings.

That sounds very improbable edging on the impossible. Were the bogeys IFFed as enemies already? If it ever happen again please make screenshots. It's hard to track a bug with a single story and without any proof.

And a tip for future: if the TWS-A ever wanders off to the side, tracking not what you wanted, a single press of PLM will reset the tracks and start the search from the center.