2.2 heavy RAM usage ! pls help - Page 5 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-23-2017, 09:57 PM   #41
Worrazen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhukov032186 View Post
Your RAM is supposed to be used up, that's what it's there for. As the game accesses data, it is stored in RAM for fast retrieval. Over a period of time, or in a more demanding game, this RAM will fill up. THAT'S THE POINT. Unused data gets flushed periodically to free resources for new calls.
Not necessairly, that's just a Microsoft feature called "Standby Memory" which may also be similar on other operating systems, for example android has a big dalvik cache which preloads all apps for faster execution and with the whole always-on and background idea (which I'm not fond of at all), but it has nothing to do with the game it self, and RAM usage does not help since most of the data is graphics data, and without enough VRAM it's pretty much going to stutter that it's hardly considered enjoyable experience and can therefore be considered unplayable, at least I wouldn't be okay with it on my standards.

Games/Programs should manage the memory good themselfs instead of the OS being a babysitter, while Standby Memory would increase loading times when you execute the same program the next time, this intervention by the OS could interfere with the program, there's an ever growing problem of DX/OGL caches not being cleaned out when reinstalling drivers and people having problems until they manually clean the old stuff out, caches are not all that grandiose as they are hyped up.

Secondly, such a standby cache is a tack-on for lower end systems that do not meet the specifications that a high-caliber simulator requires for smooth operation, isn't going to speed your game up more, it's only going to rememdy the situation by a bit, the extra RAM being taken is even if it's shown in the GUI as "used" is not doing anything to help your performance, performance between RAM and VRAM is terrible and it will not produce quality gameplay.

Thirdly, for loading times, with the use of high-speed SSDs and other HDD alternatives, the usefulness of these caches is deminished significantly, because the program will be loaded in very similar time, I think it's worth spending more effort on the game it self rather than creating OSes and other stuff with such gimmicks to speed up a few seconds of loading times.

Caches are also a tricky thing, they need to work right in order to not make glitches, and I end up many times having problems with them, for example on browsing the web, I have an extension "cache killer" because Chrome's cache on some sites is broken, it keeps showing totally wrong data unless cache is being cleaned out all the time, the extension does it every time a refresh button is clicked, my PC is fast enough so it doesn't need no caches.

This extreme caching craze is more a mobile industry thing which I'm not welcoming to invade into the PC space, the PC can be a lot better than it is if some of the fundamental things would be done different, without having to become a closed down system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABO2009 View Post
Well I will upgrade RAM and see how it works out, if its not the answer I go for a news system soon.

another PC hardware noob question: with currently 16GB of RAM, what would you recommend ? another 8 GiGs ? or 32 GB configuration
Unfortunately it's very tricky, the biggest difference for me was a reinstall on Win10, maybe a fresh Win7 would work too, but this is a complicated thing of the game not working correct on some configurations and the fact that HDDs simply aren't enough for the sheer volume of data this game needs, there's no way to fit everything into VRAM or RAM so it's all being

That said, the F10 map or the Mission editor is "very" demanding because no matter what layer you are on, all the layers are being read from HDD to be loaded, not sure if they go through RAM or go directly into VRAM, but that's what my research shown me, the F10 map uses the same files that store the terrain textures you see in first-person view, how much of them it uses I don't know but that's a sign it's not using "thumbnails" but quite more than that, secondly the "MAP" setting which you can see charts is also

So this is one of the unoptimal things, which, things like Standby Memory basically hide it, because next time you look at F10 view i'll look smooth, but the unoptimization is still there with the game it self, it's just some hacky OS babysitter way that fixes the issue with a magic wand and then people think it's working great, so developers aren't that pressured to fix these things, I simply don't like this kind of ways of doing things.

But I have seen stuttering happening for no apparent reason on Win7 - I reinstalled it on Win10 on a WORSE HDDs which has probably like 20-40 MB/s less speed and it worked better. So what I said about F10 and Mission editor, well, on Win10 it was a lot faster, on the same PC, with a WORSE hard drive, that has to be some kind of a bug either at the OS babysit level (memory management) or the game/program it self.

But there's no way to know if you're suffering from the same symptoms as I did on Win7.

Obviously it's not perfect on Win10 for me either, even with 8 GB of VRAM. So it's hard to suggest one thing to fix everything, there's many types of stutterings and slowdowns that combine together and it can be challenging to deconstruct it all to get down to the root causes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABO2009 View Post
Ok guys, another point I just found out:

upgrading the RAM as some mentioned seems pointless with my Win 7 Version..
Im running Win 7 Home Premium X64, which obviously is only able to manage 16GB RAM max !!

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...mits_windows_7


So it seems I anyway have 2 options left, 1. try with SSD 2. completely new Rig


.
Yes, I have 24 GB RAM and it's more than enough, the game doesn't even use more even if it has all the freedom to do so, it simply uses some kind of an mount and then keeps hooging the HDDs to swap things in-and-out as if it doesn't have enough RAM to just append that data. The VRAM usage never gets above 5500 MB, and I've seen RAM usage for the exe never exceed 10 GB, okay, I'm pulling out of my own memories which are some months old right now the last time I checked these numbers so don't hold me for that, but I'm absolutely sure it was never maxing out or even approaching there, even if I had a lot of units on the map (but this was like a year ago, i'll need to retest)

The reaosn why people eventually get smoother experience as they keep playing is because of the standby memory caching OS babysitter kicks in that "fixes" these issues with the fairy's magic wand, this might be whining on my end if people take a viewpoint of just being interested in the pure end-user result like console users, but this type of a real-PC programming professional viewpoint is just not the way the sausage is made, this is just not how you run a high-standard simulator when you're focusing on serious realism, it cannot afford to be relying on consumer-level gimmicks that are part of various operating systems. (not that I am a professional, I'm just relaying what they would think)

So back to the first quote of this post ... what he explained is just the talking points of what microsoft says, it doesn't apply to everything, there's no need to make room for other calls, DCS is probably isn't meant to be ran with 20 browsers and 2 other large applications simultaneously.

This is a very tricky for ED, because if they declare HDDs to be below par and take them out of the official minimum specs and declaring that you need to close down most of the stuff while running DCS then it would probably not sit well with a lot of new people, it would be a lot of whining, but that's the reality people at some point you can't pull out more from what is clearly not good enough. Now there's a lot that can be done on the program side to make it a lot better for everyoene not just the lower specs, but then it's again a balance, at some point higher-specs won't get more benefit and that's the point where I would stop optimizing that component, is the focus for high fidelity and realism or high scalability, by definition a simulator is going to be very demanding, if you cut corners it's going well below imitation of reality and it's all fake then, then you'd have a fakealator.

That's the first thing I would do, if you don't run DCS off a SSD and if you don't have a minimum of 8GB VRAM and minimum of 32GB RAM, you don't get support, it's harsh but that's reality, but that would be something very optimal from pure technical view.
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Last edited by Worrazen; 12-23-2017 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:33 AM   #42
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2x win7 same pc = NoGo !!!

Not legal, 1 will not activate therefor


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Old 12-24-2017, 08:37 AM   #43
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Install 10 NOW before you pay for it. You can roll back to 7 if you dont like it with a few clicks.

It would be stupid to not grab 10 for free, even if you roll back to 7 right after 10 install. You can then use 10 anytime in thr future.

If you dont upgrade till 31. dec you will have to pay if you ever need to move on, like in 2020 when 7 is EOL


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Old 12-24-2017, 09:07 AM   #44
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For all Win7 people, the solution is quite easy even tho it's not immediately obvious, just get another SSD just for Win10 and DCS, and you can keep both OSes, without having to fiddle with dual-boot. Just make sure you never connect both disks at the same time into the same computer, or else the Win10 bootloader may mess up with Win7 in some ways or the other way around, Win10 might even try to hiddenly install some things on Win7 too.
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:59 PM   #45
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Final update and my impressions so far:

After installing my SSD, I opted to go for the fastest and most easy solution as seen in this thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118796

So I kept my Win7 64 bit OS and just added the SSD as D:/ drive and copied DCS to my new drive & the results are great !!!

Stutters have gone away by 97% , loading times are alot faster and MP is again a Joy to fly !!
(I can run DCS with Highest Resolution, MSAA 4x; AA 4x; Deferred Shading ON, Visibility Range High , Shadows Med, Heat Blur On etc.. )

Thanks all for your Tips and feedback, it seems I could upgrade my old system one last time to "relatively" keep up with DCS .. (fingers crosssed it will catch up with 2.5 next year, we will see)

Cheers
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Old 12-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BitMaster View Post
It would be stupid to not grab 10 for free, even if you roll back to 7 right after 10 install. You can then use 10 anytime in thr future.
If you dont upgrade till 31. dec you will have to pay if you ever need to move on, like in 2020 when 7 is EOL
show me where its still free "Not from a third party"
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:16 PM   #47
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The Microsoft offer to upgrade is for people who use assistive programs such a as zoom for vision issues, text to speech , speech to text, and so on. Search for Microsoft 10 upgrade. Go to the Microsoft website, and verify that you use some sort of assistance. There is is a statement that it isn't meant to extend the free upgrade offer.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:55 AM   #48
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Well, seems that (for while) they don't care about RAM usage.
They should have buid some flush system, memory compactation, or just.... Otimize DCS's code.

This is clearly a Leak, because it has no END, it will eat all your memory, no matter how big it is. (I have 64Gb) and DCS still grow up in some servers till reach around 60 ~ 62 gigas...
As you guys can see, there is no any kind of need for all that memory, is just bad codings.

I use to develop some softwares, and sometimes, if i don't otimize code, it uses 3 or 5 times more RAM than an otimized one.

I gues they have more important things to care of by now... Maybe in Two Weeks
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