Hurts my Soul

I mean the development of the Harrier - it's stalling again?

Many bug reports for the M2000 were put into the bug tracker during the last weeks/months - which is really appreciated. But in the same time, many bugs were reported here on the forums (similar in numbers as for the Mirage), but none of them (+/- 1 or 2) where seemingly investigated or even put into the bug tracker.

Can Razbam please clarify on when the focus is planned to be shifted back to the Harrier again?

6 months ago, they said that they have aknowledged their mistakes, that they wanna go full steam to finish all three modules.

No serious updates for the Harrier since 4 months.

Razbam is teasing the Mig-23 on facebook and says that it is "coming along quite nicely".

Build your own opinion.

Release pressure on stick, bring nose down, and increase throttle. :megalol: This is only the start of year 3 for early access with the Harrier. No one I think has any idea of how many more months or years it will remain in early access. Perhaps after the M2K gets its love then the Harrier will be next. :music_whistling:

The Mirage was released first. Seems only fair that it gets most of the love now, right? Then onto the Harrier? Since they slacked off for over a year, it will take a lot of time to fix the large backlog on both aircraft, so i'm not expecting anything big for the Harrier for a while. Though they could actually update the bug tracker on their site. It contains none of the new Harrier bugs.

Release pressure on stick, bring nose down, and increase throttle. :megalol: This is only the start of year 3 for early access with the Harrier. No one I think has any idea of how many more months or years it will remain in early access. Perhaps after the M2K gets its love then the Harrier will be next. :music_whistling:

We can hope. Realistically though, I don't care that their 3D guys are working on the mig23 or whatever else, not like they are writing systems code or FM code and the existing 3D models are done. What I do care about is that they finish the existing modules before starting pre-orders for the 23. And I really do want the 23, and given that complexity wise its closer to the mig19 than the M2k or harrier I think it was a good choice for them, the only thing I expect to be a problem is the FM.

Im looking to get my third module. Ive been flying the warty since 2012. I bought the Harrier a month ago.

Despite the gaps, and the occasional mid air non-ballistic freak out.. i must admit, i cant bring myself to fly any Warthog missions. Cause i cant stop.

is the Mirage more of a complete module? i want to get a 3rd mod, one in the mid price range.

and completion is important to me. I honestly thought about getting the Black Shark, but im afraid its too aged.

what do you guys recommend?

Im looking to get my third module. Ive been flying the warty since 2012. I bought the Harrier a month ago.

 

Despite the gaps, and the occasional mid air non-ballistic freak out.. i must admit, i cant bring myself to fly any Warthog missions. Cause i cant stop.

 

is the Mirage more of a complete module? i want to get a 3rd mod, one in the mid price range.

and completion is important to me. I honestly thought about getting the Black Shark, but im afraid its too aged.

 

what do you guys recommend?

Black Shark is getting an update so I wouldn't let the age deter you. I enjoy the Mirage and I almost say it's worth getting for the campaign(s) alone, but I think there are better choices in a 3 plane hanger. But, if it's on sale and it looks like something you'd be into, go for it!

Summarization about the Harrier situation:

Sad but true…

If you're interested in helicopters then the Black Shark is a good choice. It maybe the first detailed module DCS did but it's still a great one.

Also as noted above there is a significant update coming so it will eventually be good to go with the current DCS World graphics etc.

Mirage is a fun jet but not multi-role (it can carry bombs, etc, very basic A/G) so pretty much an A/A fighter.

There are better options if you are looking for multi-role capabilities. Hornet, Viper and Thunder. I'm presuming you aren't interested in FC3 modules.

I definitely like strike capability. But i must admit the limited Air to Air ive had in the Harrier.. is frickin awesome. Ive been finding myself loading the Harrier with the same munitions no matter the mission. 4 Sidewinders and 2 MAVs if theres a cross wind, and 6 Rockies if none.

You guys mention to the Shark, there are some Black Shark screenshots in the DCS main page. And it looks.. amazing. I recommend checking them out. Well hell here ya go.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/screenshots/

i mean come on. that gets me excited. also theres new pictures of the Kiowa in there. I sure hope those smokers are clickable.

maybe its time to jump on the Black Shark before the update. its still 49.99

I definitely like strike capability. But i must admit the limited Air to Air ive had in the Harrier.. is frickin awesome. Ive been finding myself loading the Harrier with the same munitions no matter the mission. 4 Sidewinders and 2 MAVs if theres a cross wind, and 6 Rockies if none.

 

You guys mention to the Shark, there are some Black Shark screenshots in the DCS main page. And it looks.. amazing. I recommend checking them out. Well hell here ya go.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/screenshots/

i mean come on. that gets me excited. also theres new pictures of the Kiowa in there. I sure hope those smokers are clickable.

 

maybe its time to jump on the Black Shark before the update. its still 49.99

Black Shark is excellent. Can't go wrong with it for a great attack Helo experience.

Also, the Kiowa already has clickable smoke grenades, it's been shown in videos. :joystick:

Honestly. Razbam did a really good job on the M-2000C updates. As for the Harrier, it's more or less in abandon-ware state since over a year. It's not about buying an ea module. It just about that there is no progress since after the initial few months after the launch.

Even according to official change-log there hasn't been a single update for Harrier since 4 months. This module is dead way long before it got finished.

I'm not buying any of their modules anymore. MiG-19 was the first module I didn't get since a long time when I had been pre-ordering almost every single module on day one. History so far shows there is a good chance MiG-23 will end up in the same miserable state. MiG-19 was to be a new quality on the launch, not an ea anymore. We all know how it ended.

Just in case this does not become obvious. DCS is not where it had been a couple of years ago. Now there are way more modules then normal, working people with kids and families have time to fly. Sorry, but with this attitude towards not really a customers but supporters that gave a credit of trust buying into EA products that are now left without a support, the future does look rather very grim for Razbam.

What I hope, is that Razbam is heavily developing all the modules as they said that they do not release any new modules until Mirage, Farmer and Harrier are out. As that didn't state that they do not develop other modules like a Flogger, but that they do not release Flogger or any other module until those three are "finished" to level that they don't have major features missing or bugs.

(We need to all acknowledge that no software project as huge as these can be 100% complete or bug-free. Important is just that it is not major ones and that when bugs gets found etc, they are acknowledged by developers and it gets worked on ASAP).

I am hoping that the current situation with the Harrier is that there is no sense to put any time to release small updates, as it is then better to get "all" done and then get it delivered. As we do not know is there things that Razbam needs to wait from ED to work on, or not. But at this late of the progress we need to now just give some relax for Razbam to get their work done.

Chrimasts 2019 is coming very soon, meaning there will be as well the ED Christmas sale, and Razbam needs to get their products out of the major development phase out soon. As it is hurting more for their sales if they have major things lacking, and as we can see in the M2000C upgrade they just did, it was worth to wait if it will fix some major things in Harrier.

Personally for me, what I am waiting mainly for Harrier, is fix the TDC slaving via Axis, as that has never worked correctly. And then start to implement a polishing/immersion effects like a DMT/TPOD slaving inaccuracies, shaking, jittery etc while you fly. But that likely needs to come from ED, as currently all the targeting systems are way too unrealistic as they are locked to ground perfectly, while all should have a slight movement and react to aircraft movements, forcing pilot to correct the targeting system and keep it at position.

I don't know what all kind things Harrier is missing, but I know there is lots of talks about it requiring the updates. So what I would like, is totally different that someone else would like. But we all need to understand that Razbam must get Harrier "out" to be in "ready" state.

Reading the Razbam public Bug-Tracker in their site, shows that there is things to be done.

And that is actually fairly refreshing that such information is at least somewhere, so kudos for Razbam for that.

To me, Razbam has taken different route to their work now. And I like it. And this is as well a problem for me as when your faith is returned and hopes gets back up, it is easy to hurt yourself by not seeing some advancements as hoped. And that everyone should notice in themselves and avoid such thing.

Just in case this does not become obvious. DCS is not where it had been a couple of years ago. Now there are way more modules then normal, working people with kids and families have time to fly. Sorry, but with this attitude towards not really a customers but supporters that gave a credit of trust buying into EA products that are now left without a support, the future does look rather very grim for Razbam.

Every 3rd party studio, as well including ED too, should really consider more carefully that when to take the product to Early Access. As the EA should happen IMHO about 12-18 months before a ready state. If there is 2-3 years EA mode, I don't see that at all in "Early Access" as positive manner.

Because too many is buying to those and having way too high hopes. And that just hurts everyone.

The DCS World has gone far better direction in last few years, and IMHO it is now more where it should have been already 3-5 years ago.

When the KA-50 came out, and then A-10C, it was such great future painted that what DCS World will become. But that was already about 10 years ago. And it took long time to start seeing third party studios working here.

And everyone should know that we need more 3rd party studios. But what we do not need, is something like what VEAO did with the Hawk. That is a lesson learnt by ED, and that is as well something ED is protecting now the customers to never happen.

But even more dangerous things here, is that there are way too much vocal opinions for a "high end quality simulations" as a "our way, or the highway". Where too high demands are set. ED does serve purpose to set a high quality demands, but we all should be accepting some lower possibility levels as well. Because it can serve good for the overall experience.

Like some people completely dislike the SFM idea, while that would still be very suitable for a AI aircrafts. Meaning that 3rd party studios like Razbam could very well make a SFM modules for AI, like the upcoming A-6 Intruder. Not all the content for the DCS needs to be a user pilotable etc. We should have more already existing contents that allows to create the complex military experience.

And such projects could very well work as lesson for new studios etc, and base to build on a more complex, a PFM models then.

Everyone needs to steer for the bright future, and negativity doesn't help in that. Demanding too high expectations doesn't help either, and broken promises are hard to swallow, but hardest are broken hopes... And as every of us is responsible to build those hopes, it is as well part of us that needs to be blamed.

We can all improve things here, and that requires participating from everyone, from the studios as from the customers, and especially more from the fans.

I wrote this in another thread, so you'll get the summary: The Mirage came first. They stopped updating it first. Seems fair they focus on the Mirage first then, right? There is a ~1 year backlog, since they slacked off for over a year. So it will take time to get back on track. What they did was shitty, yes. But they are coming back. There has been some small updates for the Harrier in the last few patches that have not been in the changelogs. So just chill out and let Razbam work.

I wrote this in another thread, so you'll get the summary: The Mirage came first. They stopped updating it first. Seems fair they focus on the Mirage first then, right? There is a ~1 year backlog, since they slacked off for over a year. So it will take time to get back on track. What they did was shitty, yes. But they are coming back. There has been some small updates for the Harrier in the last few patches that have not been in the changelogs. So just chill out and let Razbam work.

Mirage first = fair? Well, not according to Razbam ...

That is good to hear - thank you!

 

But work on the Harrier is paused atm? (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=256454)

 

No work continues on both aircraft.

 

Remember it's different teams

 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Funfact: latest addition to their bugtracker for the Harrier were a few bug reports on Oct. 26th. Latest Mirage bugs (about 10-20 times as many as for the Harrier) werer added at end of Nov.

It is now mid december, no additions to the bug tracker this month so far.

And it is not that there were no new bug reports posted here at the forums all the time.

Yes, might just be that the bug tracker is not up-to-date - but who knows ... as nobody is talking to us.

Different teams for the M2000C and Harrier or not, Razbam has simply proven that they are not able to run more than one project at the time, and even that seems hard for them to do with adequite progress,

I agree that EA release shouldn´t happen more than max 1 year before an almost bugfree and feature complete release version is ready.

Paying real money (EA isn´t that cheap either) is not fair for acces to something being as unfinished, for serveral years, as both the M2000C and Harrier are.

Hurts my Soul

It really hurts that this poor Air frame is still in the state that it is in. Bugs and issues that have been around for soo long. The Harrier is so much fun to fly and I still do fly it but after a while it just gets too frustrating to fly and I end up switching Air Frames. If some of these bugs could just get worked out I think a lot of people would be happy, instead of pushing out new incomplete content for it. I would rather get stuff fixed first then put out the new systems. Maybe this is just me and I am ranting because I am at that point again where I need to stop playing the Harrier for a bit. Sorry to come on here and complain but thank you for reading. Just wanted to put this out there.:mad:

I’m ramping on the harrier these days, using the chuck guide as bible. Still in the phase where if there are bugs I chalk up to likely my mistakes. Can you educate on say your top three bugs?

It really hurts that this poor Air frame is still in the state that it is in. Bugs and issues that have been around for soo long. The Harrier is so much fun to fly and I still do fly it but after a while it just gets too frustrating to fly and I end up switching Air Frames. If some of these bugs could just get worked out I think a lot of people would be happy, instead of pushing out new incomplete content for it. I would rather get stuff fixed first then put out the new systems. Maybe this is just me and I am ranting because I am at that point again where I need to stop playing the Harrier for a bit. Sorry to come on here and complain but thank you for reading. Just wanted to put this out there.:mad:

You're not alone my man.

It really hurts that this poor Air frame is still in the state that it is in. Bugs and issues that have been around for soo long. The Harrier is so much fun to fly and I still do fly it but after a while it just gets too frustrating to fly and I end up switching Air Frames. If some of these bugs could just get worked out I think a lot of people would be happy, instead of pushing out new incomplete content for it. I would rather get stuff fixed first then put out the new systems. Maybe this is just me and I am ranting because I am at that point again where I need to stop playing the Harrier for a bit. Sorry to come on here and complain but thank you for reading. Just wanted to put this out there.:mad:

I feel your pain. :(

Just make sure we stay vocal. I know we get ignored on the forums. Constantly Ignored on the Discord. Maybe next big push for EA module they release we can just keep showing the state the Harrier is in.

... The Harrier is so much fun to fly and I still do fly it but after a while it just gets too frustrating to fly and I end up switching Air Frames...:mad:

Exactly the same feeling...

+1

Isnt the F14 a triumph though? Thats all i hear people talk about The Tommie and the Viper