Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

That is fundamentaly wrong.

 

You can have a 300ms ping connection with 06ms latency. (No Lag)

 

You can have a 60ms ping connection with 120ms latency. (Mucho Lag)

 

You will find that latency is mostly produced on the connection between your PC and your Modem.

 

They are not the same.

Then how are you measuring the latency? The ping Ms number is called the latency. Ping is normally a pretty good indicator of things going well or not as it not only includes the amount of time information takes to get to and from a designation through all of the hopes, it also includes the time the destination box takes to.say hello back.

Sure a box can have extra latency, but that would be either on the box itself or on your local machine and would be an indicator of a box being over taxed.

That is fundamentaly wrong.

 

You can have a 300ms ping connection with 06ms latency. (No Lag)

 

You can have a 60ms ping connection with 120ms latency. (Mucho Lag)

 

You will find that latency is mostly produced on the connection between your PC and your Modem.

 

They are not the same.

PC to your modem is only a single hope in the grand scheme of things. Network issues and things that cause latency spikes can crop up anywhere in a path. Things can also crop up in the destination itself, but Ping accounts for this as the destination has to say hello. A high ping is a very good indicator or a slow connection or a connection that has a high amount of 'Latency' since that is what the number following the milliseconds is called...

PC to your modem is only a single hope in the grand scheme of things. Network issues and things that cause latency spikes can crop up anywhere in a path. Things can also crop up in the destination itself, but Ping accounts for this as the destination has to say hello. A high ping is a very good indicator or a slow connection or a connection that has a high amount of 'Latency' since that is what the number following the milliseconds is called...

LAN Connection >

Hot WiFI Card >

Take a good look at the Second Hop MAX. Now what would result of this.

Then how are you measuring the latency? The ping Ms number is called the latency. Ping is normally a pretty good indicator of things going well or not as it not only includes the amount of time information takes to get to and from a designation through all of the hopes, it also includes the time the destination box takes to.say hello back.

 

Sure a box can have extra latency, but that would be either on the box itself or on your local machine and would be an indicator of a box being over taxed.

Ping would just be the time it takes to communicate from one station to another, latency would carry additional holdups result from handshakes, encryption, signal and even hardware... But its how bad The engine handles out of time packets. In general information is not being streamed properly so, up becomes down because that was 2 seconds ago...

Yesterday i tried to put an igla near my farp...i was in mi8 and i turn on the doppler to see the distanze... i tried to open the igla whithin 6 miles from the farp but i received the message put this where is needed.

I must go to an allied farp but different from the takeoff farp?

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X008D utilizzando Tapatalk

The guy helping out with the server jumped on TS and said that the cooling is down for the server room so the lag is probably mostly caused by the server overheating.

That was on saturday and it was fixed quickly.

Yesterday i tried to put an igla near my farp...i was in mi8 and i turn on the doppler to see the distanze... i tried to open the igla whithin 6 miles from the farp but i received the message put this where is needed.

I must go to an allied farp but different from the takeoff farp?

 

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X008D utilizzando Tapatalk

You must drop & unpack crates at least 10KM from any friendly captured base :)

The exception is Fuel Crates - which arent unpacked, you just drop them in a friendly base (different from where you got them)

Regarding points above -

Ping is not everything, though it is a good indication. Ping does not give you bandwidth or jitter (depending on how they calculate average ping)

Jitter is the real enemy as are our of order packets - bandwidth should be OK even on a relatively low connection (not dialup though :P )

For everyone on the server that experiences lag or not - make sure to add this file (instructions in ZIP) from 104th: http://community.104thphoenix.com/topic/572-dcs-multiplayer-connection-settings/

GCI - GCI will not be removed. GCI with comms is really what makes the BF experience (big thanks to all who GCI :) )

Cheating - Please dont mention on here - posts will be removed and thread closed. If you do suspect, PM and we'll investigate but I really wouldn't worry that much about it. Changes have also been made to prevent double connection so we'll see how that goes.

DL - As i've said repeatedly - it's not a nerf, its not because I hate red, it's not because I love Blue, it's because we're going to roll back through all the changes until its lag free again. This is a combination of slots, players, unit count & active sensors (AI Radars etc)

DL wasnt deactivated before when I said it was (it was a mistake on my part) - but it really should be now so we'll see how that effects lag.

Again there is a difference between lag spikes and constant warping. You will get lag spikes when units spawn and sometimes when firing a missile (spawn of missile + sensor) when the server is at capacity.

Now DL is removed - we're going to remove a few Farps and move some units around to reduce unit count and see how that works. Then it's mistral gazelle as thats really the biggest change.

I'll also check SA-11s as I cant remember exact placement and if that number significantly increased.

M460. Please do not take the packetloss in the traceroute seriously. The CPU in the routers does not prioritize the ping response and therefor will drop a large amount of packets. If you want to measure packetloss to the server then just ping it for 2 hours and find the percentage, this is pretty accurate.

Reading through what you wrote M460. Forwarding and routing packets in networking equipment is done both physically and logically by different hardware than the ones who respond to ping. Ping the server for large amount of time for more accurate data.

That is fundamentaly wrong.

 

You can have a 300ms ping connection with 06ms latency. (No Lag)

 

You can have a 60ms ping connection with 120ms latency. (Mucho Lag)

 

You will find that latency is mostly produced on the connection between your PC and your Modem.

 

They are not the same.

Sorry for the extensive OT, but I think this would be helpful to understand the issue.

As a network engineer, I confirm this information is plainly wrong. Ping is just a kind of network packet, like a TCP or UDP packet (data segment is actually the proper name for a Layer 4 datagram, not packet, but it will do). Latency is the measurement of the time it takes to get that packet from your computer to the final destination computer.

You can measure the latency for any kind of packet. But Ping are packets forged with the only purpose of network testing, they carry no useful end user payload. That's why Ping is usually used for network testing.

From your computer to the destination computer, there can be many hops across other computers and routers, and each one adds a bit of latency. "Latency" is the aggregate time of all this hops. The first hop is from your computer to your router, so if you have a problem in your LAN, it would affect that aggregated latency time. Because of the close proximity, if everything is working OK, this hop never goes above 1 or 2ms.

When having a high latency with a server, the problem can be in a hop in your internet service provider, in the server's service provider, or in any intermediate hop.

Of course, latency isn't a fixed value, it changes over time depending on network congestion. The amount of variation in latency over time is called Jitter. You can measure a low latency, but if jitter is high, it will have peaks of high latency that are seen as sporadic stutter issues.

Best regards

Of course, we are talking just about network latency. If the server's CPU is overloaded, it cannot give a response in time to the clients and you will feel it as a network lag.

It's like having a restaurant with 1 cooker for serving 100 clients. You can have 100 waiters if you want, but the delay in having the food on your plate won't be their fault.

Now DL is removed - we're going to remove a few Farps and move some units around to reduce unit count and see how that works.

So my question, would be: if the lag is reduced to a satisfactory level, would you then consider turning DL on again to see if it actually does create more lag? And depending on how good or bad it turns out to be leave it on?

Another question, how come DL is not working when there are EWRs on each airbase as part of the SAM defense? I was wondering about this for quite a while. All SAM groups have one 1L13 in their group which is the same unit that is used for enabling DL. What is this sorcery? :huh:

Of course, we are talking just about network latency. If the server's CPU is overloaded, it cannot give a response in time to the clients and you will feel it as a network lag.

 

It's like having a restaurant with 1 cooker for serving 100 clients. You can have 100 waiters if you want, but the delay in having the food on your plate won't be their fault.

Well if you are a network engineer you would know that the Cisco supervisors that are EOL have garbage 600mhz CPU. Thats where the 300 ms latency in the traceroute comes from because traffic forwarding is done on ASIC but ping response is done in software on CPU.

I really wish airfields were being removed and not farps. Some great battles over farps.

I love flying the mistral but also suspect it to be a cause of lag. Not sure why but whenever someone joins any gazzle everyones game freezes for a second. Also the timming of lag being introduced again was close to when mistral was added

It's like having a restaurant with 1 cooker for serving 100 clients. You can have 100 waiters if you want, but the delay in having the food on your plate won't be their fault.

As some one that pays for tuition with tips, thank you for this analogy! :thumbup:

Another question, how come DL is not working when there are EWRs on each airbase as part of the SAM defense? I was wondering about this for quite a while. All SAM groups have one 1L13 in their group which is the same unit that is used for enabling DL. What is this sorcery? :huh:

The airbase EWRs are not assigned an EWR role in unit options.

The airbase EWRs are not assigned an EWR role in unit options.

I wonder if we can change this. I'd be up for DL being available around friendly bases but as you get away from the friendly forces the DL loses effectiveness.

TJ

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I wonder if we can change this. I'd be up for DL being available around friendly bases but as you get away from the friendly forces the DL loses effectiveness.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thing is that are maaaany EWRs, every airbase has one. If that is actually a cause for lag ... bad

@Ciribob

A suggestion yet again ;)

Maybe remove the EWRs on the airfields - they are only there to have the AI intercept script working correct? The whole "X has detected Y" messages. Since AI is not working at the moment anyways ... why not remove that aswell? Reduces unit count and possibly some load of the server aswell. I think announcements when something is being attacked are enough anyways.

what is wrong with server ?? it seems not work with SRS.

Any solution??

I really wish airfields were being removed and not farps. Some great battles over farps.

Agreed, but it has to be a balancing act as you need slots too. I hate the three bases in the southeast and I hate the close proximity of the two water bases in the northwest.

FARPS should be (in my opinion) where the action is. It puts emphasis on the helo and support role and reinforces smart air to air engagements as you have to fly from an airbase to an engagement.

TJ

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... Then it's mistral gazelle as thats really the biggest change.

What does that mean?

Also Bugs:

* troop transporting slots not equal (Red can sortie 4, Blue 2)

Red has 2 troop ships, Mi-8 & UH-1

Blue has 1, the UH-1

* Gazelles spawn overweight

Gazzelle M - spawns with %100 fuel (should be %67) and 4 missles

Gazzlle L - Spawns in with %100 fuel (should be %92) and full weapons

Mistral - Spawns with %100 fuel and empty weapons.

* Krasnya FARP, unable to Rearm and Refuel any chopper. (on Blue, at least)

side effect - unable to fix the status of the Gazzelle's spawn status mentioned above.

Makes Mistrals useless there since they spawn empty.

*Arhipo FARP. default Red units are unarmed/defenseless

*Novoros Runway has no Blue AC slots

what is wrong with server ?? it seems not work with SRS.

Any solution??

SRS server is up and working - Try connecting to 5.189.162.17:5014

For SRS troubleshooting go here: https://discord.gg/Hb7rYey and i'll help

Thing is that are maaaany EWRs, every airbase has one. If that is actually a cause for lag ... bad.

We had 60 or so on with those EWRs on the map. The EWRs run a custom script thats pretty efficient (doesnt use Task system or AI) but I will work back through changes and possibly remove if all other changes dont help.

What does that mean?

 

Also Bugs:

 

* troop transporting slots not equal (Red can sortie 4, Blue 2)

Red has 2 troop ships, Mi-8 & UH-1

Blue has 1, the UH-1

 

* Gazelles spawn overweight

Gazzelle M - spawns with %100 fuel (should be %67) and 4 missles

Gazzlle L - Spawns in with %100 fuel (should be %92) and full weapons

Mistral - Spawns with %100 fuel and empty weapons.

 

* Krasnya FARP, unable to Rearm and Refuel any chopper. (on Blue, at least)

side effect - unable to fix the status of the Gazzelle's spawn status mentioned above.

Makes Mistrals useless there since they spawn empty.

 

*Arhipo FARP. default Red units are unarmed/defenseless

 

*Novoros Runway has no Blue AC slots

Not every captured airfield will have slots, this is by design and not a bug (in fact, most won't, only choppers or TF) :)

You can see on the Live map by clicking around which airfields have slots to help you decide which to target. You can also see the enemy slots so you can factor that in to your decision too.

For troop transport for Blue - We might allow the MG Gazelle to transport troops as it doesnt have much of a role at the minute (no bombers for it, its only currently got crates)

Mistral may be have to be removed next as when that was added was when the lag started to show.

Krasnaya farp has all the correct units for both sides so I'll move closer.

Not sure why Arhipo doesnt have defenses for Red, it should.

Spawning overweight is unlikely to be solved quickly due to time but you should be able to at least fly over to the Farp to sort out. Will try though.

Thanks for the reports :)

Mistral may be have to be removed next as when that was added was when the lag started to show.

There were no issues in previous rounds with them. Why would that module stand out vs all the others? There were in before the Viggen, if I recall.

We all just have to keep in mind that "Correlation does not imply causation" with this issue and others being addressed in this thread.

Not every captured airfield will have slots, this is by design and not a bug (in fact, most won't, only choppers or TF)

What is the design goal, if I may ask?

What is the design goal, if I may ask?

With the current template, it would need much more available parking slots in the airbases to have both all Red & Blue aircraft.

Greg

There were no issues in previous rounds with them. Why would that module stand out vs all the others? There were in before the Viggen, if I recall.

 

We all just have to keep in mind that "Correlation does not imply causation" with this issue and others being addressed in this thread.

 

 

What is the design goal, if I may ask?

There has been lag in every round d of Blue Flag that I have played that. Ican remember. I think the gazelle being brought up was because there was/is an idea that lag was not present before the Mistral was introduced into these past couple testing rounds. I think removing it for a single testing round is a worthy test just to rule it out. I'm not saying it's the cause, just want to see. You never know, this is DCS and weird shit has a tendency to happen.