[NO BUG] New AIM-9 tone is painful

It's not a question of volume, it's a question of pitch. The pitch is too high compared to ANY sidewinder tone we've ever heard anywhere.

 

And IF this is the real sound (which I honestly doubt, it's seriously disturbing and you don't want to destroy a pilot like this, duh) it's still a good idea to make it optional because it truly sounds horrid, like fingers screeching on a blackboard.

 

There's realistic and then there's common sense - having a lower pitch would completely fix the issue while also matching what we've all heard from any lock tone ever.

So the "we" is the collective group of people in the community who likely have never flown the real F-14 a day in their life, is what I am interpreting it as. And complaining about how the 'real sound' you accuse of is like an attempt to destroy a pilot is like saying firearms manufacturers should've made their guns quieter for infantry to use. The pilot has the helmet, and the grunt has earplugs. Not even during flight should you have not put on your helmet in the first place helping at least dampen the pitch to something fainter/softer of a noise.

So yes, a lower pitch would get rid of the complaining and get you what you hear. But no, compared to the "lock tones" you have heard of, there is no 100% certainty from those who are not retired pilots of the airframe nor' an SME. My argument on this stands otherwise until there is a legitimate problem and acknowledged by the developers themselves against the realism of the lock tone.

So the "we" is the collective group of people in the community who likely have never flown the real F-14 a day in their life, is what I am interpreting it as...

 

Anywhere means in a computer video game or in videos. I assume it is safe to say that he hasn't used or shot one? Well show me an actual SEAM tone recorded inline on a video from an AIM9L/M off of an F14A/B and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, it is simply and objectively uninformed opinion and hyperbole.

I don't find the tone in the sim video posted here, even when turned up as loud as my computer will go, "painful". Annoying, absolutely. As it should be.

So the "we" is the collective group of people in the community who likely have never flown the real F-14 a day in their life, is what I am interpreting it as.

We're not talking about something that applies uniquely to fighers, pilots or technology limitations though. We're talking about an artificial sound made to make aware of the pilot that the missile has achieved lock.

Something that, for example, is expected to be heard from the pilot for minutes in case of an intercept where ROE doesn't allow fire. I.e. stray GA aircraft unresponsive on the radio, you might have to sit there 30 minutes waiting to take the shot, listening to THAT. You realize the pilot would switch off the weapon, leading to consequences? Slower response time because of a stupid noise, do you just trust Heatblur on this?

And complaining about how the 'real sound' you accuse of is like an attempt to destroy a pilot is like saying firearms manufacturers should've made their guns quieter for infantry to use.

No.

Just no.

This is a strawman in the purest sense. Do I even have to tell you that when a bullet explodes there's a chemical reaction, it's not a speaker inside the weapon that goes "bang"? Are you so out of touch with reality?

The pilot has the helmet, and the grunt has earplugs. Not even during flight should you have not put on your helmet in the first place helping at least dampen the pitch to something fainter/softer of a noise.

You do realize that "hear in helmet" doesn't dampen important alerts, you're hearing those from the headset inside your helmet, you silly?

"Yes let's make the pilot isolated from all warnings when he puts his obligatory flight helmet on" said no airforce ever ;)

So yes, a lower pitch would get rid of the complaining and get you what you hear. But no, compared to the "lock tones" you have heard of, there is no 100% certainty from those who are not retired pilots of the airframe nor' an SME. My argument on this stands otherwise until there is a legitimate problem and acknowledged by the developers themselves against the realism of the lock tone.

The issue is that the burden of proof is always on who has to prove that something is different. If you want to prove that Earth is flat you have to provide proof. If you want to prove that the sidewinder lock tone is an ear damaging screech nobody has ever heard before, you have to produce proof.

Galileo proved the Earth wasn't the center of the universe with hard facts, if you forgot.

Anywhere means in a computer video game or in videos. I assume it is safe to say that he hasn't used or shot one? Well show me an actual SEAM tone recorded inline on a video from an AIM9L/M off of an F14A/B and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, it is simply and objectively uninformed opinion and hyperbole.

 

I don't find the tone in the sim video posted here, even when turned up as loud as my computer will go, "painful". Annoying, absolutely. As it should be.

There's a video here of an official F-14 intercept. There's videos of modern AIM-9 lock tones. There's on the other hand absolutely zero proof of this lock tone.

Again, burden of proof.

who are these people?

Double post.

There's a video here of an official F-14 intercept. There's videos of modern AIM-9 lock tones. ...

 

Again, burden of proof.

Exactly, burden of proof. Show me.

This is the only footage I am aware of (sent to me) on this subject. It is still a high pitch before returning to the growl you identify as a "lock tone." At that rate of continuation, there is still questioning of HB and how they recorded the sound raw or with dampening.

Skip to 5:51

I already explained this. The tone you hear when the missile was launched has nothing to do with the AIM9 seeker- it's a sound injected anytime the pilot pulls the trigger. You see a coincident mark on the upper left side of the HUD video for the same reason. Why don't the experts around here know this? ;)

That missile was shot without employing SEAM.

Interesting that the Skipper was flying around with his SW Volume turned down, isn't it?

You did, in the first page, there's already links to a vast array of sounds that never get as high pitched as this :)

 

Guys we're all arguing over nothing. It's common sense to not damage your pilot with harmful noise levels. If you think otherwise then it's fine but we would be literally swarmed by interviews with "I remember in the 70s where the lock tone gave me nightmares" - something that just doesn't happen

 

If it stands I'll just have to mod it out because I have misophonia and it makes me feel really uncomfortable to hear it, it's no big deal, but I still think it's silly that people believe this is even close to a realistic sound to put in the pilot ears. It's a basic function of sound design - you've probably realized that the more annoying the sound is, the more important for the pilot survival, it's not a mistery Master Warnings make you want to find the reason ASAP and that Betty is named "Bitching" because she repeats the same instruction over and over and over again: they're linked to pilot survival.

 

This is a shoot warning cue and a sound that is supposed to be possibly heard for a long time, given that it can happen even without a hot trigger (as the previous example, a GA intercept where you're sitting with this tone in your head for 30 minutes.)

 

If you do think that "SUPER SECRET DATA" is always to be intended as official gold even if it makes zero sense, then I suggest finding a job at Gaijin's PR team :)

That is nothing more than your opinion and baseless conjecture mate. You don't like the sound, so it must be wrong.

Show me a video. I'm sitting here knowing exactly what the truth is, waiting for you to prove everyone wrong.

Multiple videos around of that, I already replied to this in full extent, it's not a "like" it's "painful" ;)

Multiple videos around of that, I already replied to this in full extent, it's not a "like" it's "painful" ;)

I ask again, where? Post the links.

I agree with a previous poster - if it's the real sound, then it's the real sound. If it's what the real-world pilots had to put up with, then it's what the real-world pilots had to put up with.

That said, it does bring up an interesting point - is what's heard on a recording the same as what someone would've heard in real life? I say this because, for example, the sound of a firearm discharge on recorded audio is not the same as the way a human ear would receive that noise. It's the same sound, but heard differently.

In my view, what the "actual" sound is less important than how it would've been heard in the Tomcat pilot's headset. So all these video and audio recordings of the AIM-9 "growl" and tone aren't all that useful if it doesn't capture exactly what the human ear would've heard in real life. Does that make sense?

In another example, somebody re-created the AIM-9 tone on his computer. It sounds quite different from the way it's been depicted in the sims, and I wonder if this is how it's actually supposed to sound. If it is, then it's yet another example of the way something is heard in real time, in the moment, by the human ear, is not the same as the way it's heard on a recording.

I ask again, where? Post the links.

*sigh* no, I'm not falling for this.

Let's put it this way: you're saying all other modules are wrong, that ED is wrong, etc. So, why are you not asking this from Heatblur, given that they're the Galileo of the situation?

Food for thought. And I'm off, because it's a sterile argument where you won't obviously change your stace: I'm looking at it from a human, engineering, sound design and military efficiency perspective. You're looking at it from "if HB has the data, it's true". I'll just wait for HB to address this, since it's close to not putting epylepsy warnings on your game when you introduce such harmful sounds.

*sigh* no, I'm not falling for this.

Let's put it this way: you're saying all other modules are wrong, that ED is wrong, etc. So, why are you not asking this from Heatblur, given that they're the Galileo of the situation?

 

Food for thought. And I'm off, because it's a sterile argument where you won't obviously change your stace: I'm looking at it from a human, engineering, sound design and military efficiency perspective. You're looking at it from "if HB has the data, it's true". I'll just wait for HB to address this, since it's close to not putting epylepsy warnings on your game when you introduce such harmful sounds.

No, I flew the aircraft for eight years, but I also trust Heatblur to do everything possible to get things right.

Basically, you've made an infantile internet accusation and attempted to argue it without merit.

I agree with a previous poster - if it's the real sound, then it's the real sound....?

 

 

In another example, somebody re-created the AIM-9 tone on his computer. It sounds quite different from the way it's been depicted in the sims, and I wonder if this is how it's actually supposed to sound. If it is, then it's yet another example of the way something is heard in real time, in the moment, by the human ear, is not the same as the way it's heard on a recording.

That's the AIM9X. We're talking AIM9L/M.

No, I flew the aircraft for eight years, but I also trust Heatblur to do everything possible to get things right.

 

Basically, you've made an infantile internet accusation and attempted to argue it without merit.

No, I made a logical remark over proof and physical reaction to a sound ;)

Think of it in another way: it's an annoying sound by any way you look at it, we can agree on this. It's painful for some people.

You want a shoot sound to warn you that it's the right time to shoot, BUT do you want it to force the pilot to turn it off OR fire prematurely?

You, as the sound designer, would be putting lives at stake over a sound. If turned off, it defeats the purpose. If it isn't, it leads the pilot to override his brain process to fire prematurely to make the noise to stop or to turn the weapon off making reaction times longer.

Not that it would be the first time, since 300 people recently died in the span of 6 months over Boeing placing a warning light as optional (the whole MCAS issue, if airlines bought the optional warning light, pilots woould have instantly know that the AoA sensors were malfunctioning.) - but really you can't take this for granted.

I mean, it's literally the only heatseeker in all of DCS that people are currently complaining about, and it also sounds very different from e.g. the AIM-9P in the F-5E (and any other Aim9 really). While that's obviously a different missile and aircraft, you'd think the transition from searching "growl" to lock "high pitched" would be more or less comparable at least. Instead, as Eldur has shown, it's not even close, and imo it warrants Heatblur at least double checking things.

AIM-9M lock tone here:

This is from a Greek F-16. Doesn't sound much like the new tone, but sounds a lot like the old one.

Did the F-14 get its lock tone from the missile, or generate it itself?

Honestly, I dont understand why people are trying to argue with a real F-14 pilot about this.

The point of DCS is to simulate these aircraft with as much accuracy as physically possible, including all the sounds. So if you find the sound annoying touch shit! This is how the real deal sounded, according to people who are MUCH more qualified to talk about this then anyone else on these forums.

Bottom line: This is accurate. If you don't like it either turn it down or mod it away.

Honestly, I dont understand why people are trying to argue with a real F-14 pilot about this.

 

The point of DCS is to simulate these aircraft with as much accuracy as physically possible, including all the sounds. So if you find the sound annoying touch shit! This is how the real deal sounded, according to people who are MUCH more qualified to talk about this then anyone else on these forums.

 

Bottom line: This is accurate. If you don't like it either turn it down or mod it away.

:thumbup: This is the true common sense that we need. Accuracy is accuracy, not a "if I likes it, I buys it."

No, I made a logical remark over proof and physical reaction to a sound ;)

Think of it in another way: it's an annoying sound by any way you look at it, we can agree on this. It's painful for some people.

 

You want a shoot sound to warn you that it's the right time to shoot, BUT do you want it to force the pilot to turn it off OR fire prematurely?

You, as the sound designer, would be putting lives at stake over a sound. If turned off, it defeats the purpose. If it isn't, it leads the pilot to override his brain process to fire prematurely to make the noise to stop or to turn the weapon off making reaction times longer.

 

Not that it would be the first time, since 300 people recently died in the span of 6 months over Boeing placing a warning light as optional (the whole MCAS issue, if airlines bought the optional warning light, pilots woould have instantly know that the AoA sensors were malfunctioning.) - but really you can't take this for granted.

You don't have a clue on the 737 MAX MCAS system either. Maybe you should refrain from wasting everyone's time with baloney?

Not that it would be the first time, since 300 people recently died in the span of 6 months over Boeing placing a warning light as optional (the whole MCAS issue, if airlines bought the optional warning light, pilots woould have instantly know that the AoA sensors were malfunctioning.) - but really you can't take this for granted.

And what source is that from? CNN or other news? News get a lot of aircraft facts wrong half the time. I wouldn't want to believe it from the source that says the runway is your tarmac.

AIM-9M lock tone here:

 

 

This is from a Greek F-16. Doesn't sound much like the new tone, but sounds a lot like the old one.

 

Did the F-14 get its lock tone from the missile, or generate it itself?

Thanks for posting.

2:19 is pretty close to what we have. It's higher than the stock DCS wav file. I am not sure where the tone is generated, but I'm sure many will find it "painful" and "horrifying" and probalby killed these Viper drivers a few minutes after the video ended. ;)

I like the way the F16 weapons system shows the missile launch data while the RTGS/Predictor data is still present no matter what mode is selected.

Surprised that there wasn't a launch during the Greek vs Turks engagement. ;)

Go through the manuals, and check the Hz rating to what the manuals say then look at the Hz rating in the current sound.

That is literally the only way you can be 100% 'certain' that your getting the exact sound the other thing you have to remember (which Victory is trying to point out to a lot of you) is that there IS a volume control for the Winders, the winder 'growl' or white noise as I've actually heard one or two pilots call it, is designed to punch through a number of other items that might be happening at the same time not just 'on its own'.

Use the volume controls and don't leave them simply yanked to max every Fighter i've ever been near in person there is generally only 1 or 2 switches ever 'maxed' and those tend to be the comm switches when they've had a very shitty connection to the transmitter and need to cut through the noise.

That being said HB and the like do kinda need to remember we aren't sitting here with real engines thrumming, the ECS system blowing, the humm of all the electronics, two earplugs, etc.. ;) but hey it's a sound don't like it.. replace it with one you do.