DCS: F-14 Air to Air Refueling Tutorial

VR helps.

YMMV but the S-3 is the hardest because you have so much small box of connection and you're pretty close to the tanker itself. KC-135 is 2nd and 130 is most easy. AAR is about pinpoint connection at slow steady pace and then you fly formation only. At no point in the process you need to look at the speed dial. I use as reference the basket going through the right frame warning lights for just before the connection and the refueling pod when refueling.

If you're struggling you can try to place the little cross on the hud on the refueling pod and just keep it there. The size of the cross compared to the pod tells you if you need to go forward or back.

I don't really use the above technique anymore though, I just wing it.

YMMV but the S-3 is the hardest because you have so much small box of connection and you're pretty close to the tanker itself. KC-135 is 2nd and 130 is most easy. AAR is about pinpoint connection at slow steady pace and then you fly formation only. At no point in the process you need to look at the speed dial. I use as reference the basket going through the right frame warning lights for just before the connection and the refueling pod when refueling.

+1 :thumbup:

It is almost impossible to see reference points through the window.

If you use a TrackIR or VR, you can easily lower your point of view so you see the tanker well and as many reference points as you need.

Pain

OMG, Im in utter agony right now!

Mentally and a bit physically.

Overall Im fell ok doing AAR; KC-130 quite easy and S-3 ok.

The big problem for me is the KC-135. In the QuickMisson in Caucasus, its just going a bit too fast for me and I usually only manage to fill up half the tank with quite a few disconnects. I lowered the speed via ME by about 100kts and then it was easier, but still hard and unsatifying.

But I just did the 6th or 7th mission in Cage the bear ("Clear the sky"I think its called) and to me the KC-135 is just undoable..... It travels with only ~190KIAS, so I have to stay at max wingsweep and my plane is constantly pitching up and down a few meters. One tiny push up on the trim and its going up too much, one down and its the same way around. And every correction seems to get exaggerated....

I also tried to go to 40deg wingsweep but AOA started to climb pretty fast and a stall was rather likely, so I went back to 20deg.

Some might be due to my setup (Warthog on the desk) so my hands position is rather high, which also helps my musceles getting tense (hence the physical agony), but right now (after 100+ refuels according to the Log in DCS) this special refuel was rather frustrating for me. I guess there will be better days again! Especially after more practicing;-)

I don't know what it is about refuelling this beast for me. I can get on the basket straight away in the hornet and I am quite able to do it with the tomcat too once it is trimmed out right, but when I am on the basket in the hornet, I can almost do a complete roll and still be connected to the basket, in the tomcat however, I deviate from straight and level by 1ft and the basket disconnects, it's infuriating!

OMG, Im in utter agony right now!

 

Mentally and a bit physically.

 

Overall Im fell ok doing AAR; KC-130 quite easy and S-3 ok.

 

The big problem for me is the KC-135. In the QuickMisson in Caucasus, its just going a bit too fast for me and I usually only manage to fill up half the tank with quite a few disconnects. I lowered the speed via ME by about 100kts and then it was easier, but still hard and unsatifying.

 

But I just did the 6th or 7th mission in Cage the bear ("Clear the sky"I think its called) and to me the KC-135 is just undoable..... It travels with only ~190KIAS, so I have to stay at max wingsweep and my plane is constantly pitching up and down a few meters. One tiny push up on the trim and its going up too much, one down and its the same way around. And every correction seems to get exaggerated....

 

I also tried to go to 40deg wingsweep but AOA started to climb pretty fast and a stall was rather likely, so I went back to 20deg.

 

Some might be due to my setup (Warthog on the desk) so my hands position is rather high, which also helps my musceles getting tense (hence the physical agony), but right now (after 100+ refuels according to the Log in DCS) this special refuel was rather frustrating for me. I guess there will be better days again! Especially after more practicing;-)

I just had a go at this myself.

I've no idea why it's going so slow and high (26,000') but it really makes it difficult. I think it's a very bad idea to sweep the wings under those conditions. I actually deployed landing flaps under my attempt, but even then the aircraft handles very sluggishly, to the point that it's very hard to trim it right.

The key seems to be to not waiting for something to happen when you make adjustments with the stick. Just trust that something will happen in a second or two.

When I finally caught the basket I was constantly moving the stick, making minute adjustments. Like, if I was going high, I would push the stick ever so little forward for a fraction of a second, and then release, then make the next adjustment.

I think you always do it like that, but in this particular case the lag is so extreme you really have to think about it. But even then, I don't believe thinking about it will get you all the way, you need practice as well, 'cause the neurons in your brain needs rewiring. So practice, sleep on it, repeat, and eventually it'll be easy.

I tried the IA Caucasus refueling with KC-135MPRS once again without problems. This is the picture I try to maintain so there's plenty of visual cues. I just use bomb mode.

Will get back to test the one from the campaign but the tanker @190KIAS is a bug in itself so don't oversweat it guys.

This is a bit embarrassing, but I might have had a couple of beers before I tried the "Clearing the way".

Anyway, I tried it again late last night after I've had another drink or two. That's when I found that I had the autopilot engaged (I had just paused the game earlier).

After disengaging the AP, I could refuel with auto sweep and maneuvering flaps without too much trouble. I even gave bomb mode a go, but the buffeting was very severe and I eventually ended up in a flat spin. This was with the starting loadout and 15000 lbs fuel.

It's still much harder than a normal refueling, but I don't know if it's really worth practicing much, as it isn't a normal refueling.

This is a bit embarrassing, but I might have had a couple of beers before I tried the "Clearing the way".

 

Anyway, I tried it again late last night after I've had another drink or two. That's when I found that I had the autopilot engaged (I had just paused the game earlier).

 

After disengaging the AP, I could refuel with auto sweep and maneuvering flaps without too much trouble. I even gave bomb mode a go, but the buffeting was very severe and I eventually ended up in a flat spin. This was with the starting loadout and 15000 lbs fuel.

 

It's still much harder than a normal refueling, but I don't know if it's really worth practicing much, as it isn't a normal refueling.

Can you please explain the above in other words, didn't get the point there. Auto was fine and bomb mode gave you a flat spin or what? thx

Can you please explain the above in other words, didn't get the point there. Auto was fine and bomb mode gave you a flat spin or what? thx

We're talking about refueling at 190KIAS and 20K ft.

Auto with maneuvering flaps manually extended is sufficient to do it - but very hard. Far from optimum Tomcat AAR which is 240KIAS at 40 degrees wing sweep and close to minimum speed of 170KIAS.

Bomb mode in this situation will not generate enough lift so you'll stall and fall.

KC-135

Slowly Im getting to grips with the KC-135.

One thing, that helped me quite a bit in comfort (and therefore less shoulderstrain) is, that before refuel I raise my head about 10cm higher than normal and recenter my TrackIR (I use monitor/TrackIR). That way, when I go back to my normal (lower) position Im already lower in the cockpit and looking out of the front is much less tiring, because you dont have to lower your head. Compared with visibility in the F-16 and F/A-18 one can see the age of the Tomcat though....

I also did the last mission in Cage the bear and refuelling there was much better since the tanker was doing something like 300KIAS.

I think, the low speed of the tanker in the seventh mission is just wrong and does not need any special consideration.

So, I've now got it down where I can consistently and confidently refuel from the KC-130 as long as it is flying straight and level. I can from the KC-135, but it usually takes a few attempts to plug --- the dihedral wing angle is disorienting, made worse that because you are so far out on the wing there is much less to reference (most of your view is sky). The Viking is absolutely the most challenging! I've done it, but it took several attempts to plug and even then I dropped off the basket a few times.

I found Red Kite's video AMAZINGLY useful, and the most important advice he gave is: form up on the tanker and then trim, trim, trim, trim till you are absolutely stable. I stabilize just behind the basket and hold and then rock the throttle to edge into the basket for contact.

Here's a question though --- no matter what the tanker is, as soon as I plug, no matter how gentle, I suddenly find myself climbing up relative to the tanker. I have learned to anticipate and control this, so it is not a problem. What I am wondering is ... why? Sometimes I literally drift into the basket so there is hardly any momentum at all and certainly I am flying level. Yet, inevitably, right after contact, I rapidly start climbing. Is it something to do with the aerodynamics?

By the way, I can, without hyperbole say this: the most satisfying accomplishment I've had in ANY virtual world, and the most satisfying non-professional skill I have ever learned, is A2A refueling. The first time I tanked successfully --- I'll remember that for a LONG time to come!

Yeah, the S-3 Viking really is a challenge. I've learned, though, to just stay plugged long enough to get 3,000-5,000 pounds. The way I build missions, I normally only refuel from S-3s for post launch top-off or overhead the carrier on return. Since the S-3 only carries about 13,000 pounds of fuel on board, a thirsty Tomcat needing a full refill can drink one dry and still not be filled. The tanker crew will cut you off, reel in the hose, and go home.

I'm hoping ED will introduce a KC-135 with the wrecking ball fitted to the boom so we can all know the misery of taking a full fuel load from the iron maiden.

Getting it right has been a most rewarding experience, and the pride I feel at pulling up to the tanker and taking a full refill without breaking contact is unequaled.

Getting it right has been a most rewarding experience, and the pride I feel at pulling up to the tanker and taking a full refill without breaking contact is unequaled.

YES. It's like an inner glow that you carry around for days!

Last night I was able to connect to the KC-135 after a few hours of trying. Took maybe a pound or two of fuel then lost the basket and promptly removed the tail section of the aforementioned KC-135. I'm flying in VR with the Valve Index and the biggest issue I'm having is I can't for the life of me, find a fixed point on the wing fuel pod that is repeatedly consistent in VR.

Last night I was able to connect to the KC-135 after a few hours of trying. Took maybe a pound or two of fuel then lost the basket and promptly removed the tail section of the aforementioned KC-135. I'm flying in VR with the Valve Index and the biggest issue I'm having is I can't for the life of me, find a fixed point on the wing fuel pod that is repeatedly consistent in VR.

I have the same setup. After connecting, and with the wings folded back, I use the ADL (+) cross on the HUD and place it on the back hole of the refueling pod, constantly adjusting with Rudder and Throttle (Speed-brake if needed) to keep it there.

A few days ago, we had a sortie wich also included aerial refueling. I captured it on video and thought that I could show it to you.

I did that with wings in Auto and a KC-135MPRS which was flying a circle pattern.

The key to success on aerial refueling with the Tomcat is to follow the rules:

• Fly in formation with the tanker until your are trimmed hands free.
  
• Do it slow, don't hesitate and don't get into osscilation with the stick.
  
• Set the tanker to cruise around 250kts IAS.
  

Use this link:

Or jump here to 2:15:

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I still don't know why there are so many wrong informations and fairy tales about the wingsweep:

• The F-14 have NEVER been refueld with wings in bomb mode. NEVER.
  
• New IRL turkey drivers have been advised to refuel with wings in 40°. Bomb mode would be 55°.
  

This was advised, to avoid turbulences on the vertical stabs coming from the wing of the tanker. According to the swept back wings, the AOA rises and the vertical fins are lower then they would be in Auto. This effect (turbulences on vertical stabs) is not even modelled in DCS. So there is no need to sweep the wings back.

Second, I hear often that the slats and maneuver flaps are going crazy. Thats the next fairy tale. You are flying constant and straight with 250kts IAS. There are no slats or maneuver flaps being used. And if they would, it would also not matter because you are flying straight and constant. No difference if they would be out 50% the whole time.

Experienced IRL turkey driver refueld with wings in Auto. Just a matter of training.

In fact, refueling with 55° (bomb mode) makes your life harder. The turkey gets really nervous to roll inputs and you are very slow and near a stall with the resulting AOA.

If your problem is the restriced view, then better try to change your viewpoint.

So let me say as conclusion:

• The F-14 is not a FBW aircraft. If you add one thing (thrust), two other things (speed and lift) will happen. You have to avoid those effects already before they start (pitch down when adding thrust) to happen. Only thing that helps: Training, training, training.
  
• Follow the rules for aerial refueling as said above.
  

(And don't forget to set the air source to left unless you wan't to breath some kerosene :smartass: )

• The F-14 have NEVER been refueld with wings in bomb mode. NEVER.
  
• New IRL turkey drivers have been advised to refuel with wings in 40°. Bomb mode would be 55°.
  

Also everyone feels the difference between Auto and Manual wing sweep in AAR and you say it's the same - straight and level flight. No, it's a lot harder in Auto. No idea why if not for the different flight control surfaces behavior.

You missunderstood me.

I wanted to clean up with two fairy tales:

1 - Everyone refers to do refueling in bomb mode. -> Thats wrong, 40° would be the correct, not bomb mode with 55°.

2 - Its hardly to master refueling in auto cause she's bitc*ing around as hell. -> To show that this is just not true, I posted the video.

Additonaly, I just said that the reason for useing 40° is not present in DCS, so it does not help you really. I would guess, that most people are haveing a harder time in Auto because they are not approaching slow, perfectly trimmed and with only little inputs on the throttle and stick.

For me personally, refuleing in Auto is different then doing it with 40°, but I would not say that one is harder then the other.

Flying with Auto or 40° result in having two different flight profiles, more or less like doing it with two different aircraft. So you would need to learn one or the other.

Maybe 40° does not lift as much as Auto when adding throttle, but for that it is more nervous on roll and more damped on pitch, you trade always only one thing for another.

I definitely find it easier, as in more relaxed, with some sweep. It doesn't have to be bomb mode, but bomb mode is fine. I have to work harder if I go auto, although I have now learned how to do it.

What makes auto harder is exactly as you say, lift changes more with thrust, and the aircraft is very nervous in pitch, easily leading to PIO for beginners.

Sweep definitely helps me.

For two reasons:

(1) the higher AoA makes it easier to keep sight of the tanker

(2) as you are nudging the aircraft forward or back, the changes in speed have less effect on the change in lift

Note that (2) above is relative to wings fully swept forward. This is different from auto, which has the wing profile changing depending on speed. Even without the latter (for e.g., by locking wings forward), locking wings in a sweep helps in that it buffers the change in lift for the change in speed.

So, while not denying that there are many who find it a breeze to refuel in any wing configuration, I think the swept wing config is definitely easier. These two are not mutually exclusive concepts.

This is different from auto, which has the wing profile changing depending on speed. Even without the latter (for e.g., by locking wings forward), locking wings in a sweep helps in that it buffers the change in lift for the change in speed.

In those range you are changeing the speed during approach and refueling, the wings are not moveing a single degree. Watch my video on the page before. Was done in Auto. No wing / slats / flaps movement.

Or could you provide a video of refueling where you can show that the wings and /or slats & flaps are moving? If you follow the rules (fly in formation, trim hands free, approach slow) that should not be a problem.

Watch my video on the page before. Was done in Auto. No wing / slats / flaps movement.

Not to argue with that but you know we can't tell that from the video provided. Neither you could unless you do it in external view.