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Dying in Full-Fidelity Aircraft


WingC3

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Just an observation:

Am I the only one who finds that one basically never survives being hit by a missile in the F-18, F-16, or JF-17. I don't think I've ever had the chance to eject from any of these aircraft after being hit by a missile from any angle.

 

Maybe that's realistic, but then, it's not aligned with the FC3 experience, and also getting tossed around the sky after getting hit and then managing to eject is fun...

 

I'm not suggesting that the aircraft itself should be flyable after getting hit, but it would be interesting to make the pilot robust enough to eject at least SOME of the time

 

Thoughts?

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I honestly couldn't count how many times I've almost evaded a missile to have part of my aircraft blown off. Lots of ejects, lots of flying home or almost :)

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Those aircraft don't have a completed damage model. Once the damage threshold gets above a certain limit the pilot just dies and most of the bits that can are rendered as destroyed. Missiles tend to always be above that threshold thus the insta-death.

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The A10C is one full fidelity module that you can survive to eject, obviously sometimes you are unable to - but more often than not - you can. SAM or A/A.

The F/A-18C is definitely susceptible to being hit and killing the pilot instantly, therefore not allowing opportunity to eject. As another stated regarding the current damage model - I look forward to seeing what they can come up with when it is finished.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

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Might also have to do with where the aircraft is armored....A-10C pilot has a lot of protection.....other aircraft, not so much. Also when I can’t eject I usually go to F2 view to see Shaw all or bullet holes in the canopy.....I figure that’s what did my pilot in.

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Might also have to do with where the aircraft is armored....A-10C pilot has a lot of protection.....

 

Yup.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

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Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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I wonder if size has anything to do with it. The F-15 and Flankers are much larger then the three full fidelity planes listed, farther away cockpit could be from a warhead or center of aircraft

 

 

 

Yes, size matters. I manage to get Home with F-14 countless times. F-16, F-18, JF-17 is rather small aircraft so you do not have much chance. But I also managed to get RTB with damaged F-18 after gun hit and also small IR missile hit.

 

 

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Yeah the F14 is a tank. Potentially TOO survivable. So it clearly is down to damage model, and like I said, that might even be REALISTIC. Although there are certainly numerous accounts of F18 and F16 pilots escaping aircraft after missile hits during the gulf war. So I simply think the survival percentage should be increased A BIT.

Makes CSAR gameplay possible too. Which is something one used to see more of.

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Might also have to do with where the aircraft is armored....A-10C pilot has a lot of protection.....other aircraft, not so much. Also when I can’t eject I usually go to F2 view to see Shaw all or bullet holes in the canopy.....I figure that’s what did my pilot in.

 

In real life, yes. In game, no. As Grimes has already confirmed above, the aircraft in question don't have a detailed damage model. So you will always see those holes when the damage is above a certain threshold and the pilot will always be dead. Think of it more as a canned set of damage based on the overall aircraft health. That's because the detailed per-system damage model hasn't been done yet. At least that's what Grimes said, and they are an ED Tester, so I believe it.

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Depends on the missile. Most radar SAMs are pretty f'ing big. A Buk that hits you is going to obliterate you. A Sidewinder or Stinger probably won't be an insta-kill. A Phoenix would probably always be insta-kill. Amraams, Alamos, etc, pretty dicey but you might live, usually not.

 

I have taken hits from smaller missiles many times and survived. Big factor is where they hit. Face shots are gonna kill you. Tail shots are gonna cripple the plane. Body shots could go either way, depends on missile size.

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The Ka-50 for example can take 1 or 2 hits from a manpad and still fly home. It's gonna be an interesting ride home but I have done this many many times...with a sore forearm afterwards LoL.

 

If it gets hit by an AMRAMM for example it's usually too much damage with high probability of Pilot death, same with larger SAM.

 

Contrary, the Mi-8 seems to suffer the most from the incomplete damage model, most any small arms fire will cause you to spiral downward or Pilot death.

 

The Huey is a lot tougher and somewhere in between the two above imho, but I dont fly it often.

 

Looking forward to the better damage model.

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Depends on the missile. Most radar SAMs are pretty f'ing big. A Buk that hits you is going to obliterate you. A Sidewinder or Stinger probably won't be an insta-kill. A Phoenix would probably always be insta-kill. Amraams, Alamos, etc, pretty dicey but you might live, usually not.

 

I have taken hits from smaller missiles many times and survived. Big factor is where they hit. Face shots are gonna kill you. Tail shots are gonna cripple the plane. Body shots could go either way, depends on missile size.

 

You might be surprised, AA missiles have surprisingly large warheads and most SAMs are smaller than you think. They need a lot more propellant to accelerate and climb, so AA missiles can dedicate much higher % of overall weight to warhead. Everyone seems to think the Phoenix is so deadly but its just a 60kg warhead, its got a bunch of fuel but only 10 kg larger warhead than the aim-120C's 50kg warhead, which has much better terminal guidance and fuze. The Sparrow on the other hand is nasty. It packs a serious punch at 90kg.

 

The Python 5, in contrast, is small, at 10kg... 1/4 the size of 120b, but was designed to hit the cockpit, not engine or center of mass. Israelis got tired of shooting planes down only to watch them eject and come back in a new jet. Python 5's aim for pilots, not planes...

 

SAMs like SA-10/S-300 are huge overall with around 150kg warhead. But again, consider the size of the missile. Much publicized s-400, has one variant with a tiny 20kg (IIRC) warhead that uses a directed explosion greatly increasing pK (there are variants with big warheads as well). Most of the long range SAMs are smaller warheads than Sparrows, and the mid-range stuff is generally around the same size or smaller than a sidewinder. Manpads are generally just a couple lbs or less, a round of GAU-8 30mm is about a pound IIIRC? Less explosive weight obviously and doesn't have prox fuze but interesting to think about. Sparrows are nasty though, not too many things will survive one.

 

Remember the good ol' days when none of this mattered? Back before the Hornet or Viper when we flew around in titanium bathtubs? This thread made me look up an old Hoggit post where people were posting hogs with holes in em. Still learning the sim at the time but an experienced pilot. I had my head down fumbling trying to write down a 9 line with HMD falling off not paying attention to threat situation I flew right into (I think) Tunguska range with its nasty 10kg cont. rod warhead, which I took at least one of to the face, followed by jinking through multiple streams of shilka 23mm and the tunguska's 30mm, somehow still flying with multiple warnings on my six, one last shot most likely a SA-15 to the ass finally knocked out electronics. All tanks leaking, no control surfaces without holes, no rubber on tires, no electronics but the bathtub did its job. Should have belly landed but flared it both engines out flared halfway down the runway and must have touched down under 60 its. About 2 second rollout, somehow gear held. No ejecting necessary

just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about

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Its not the size of the warhead that kills you, its what it propels..you are extremely unlikely to suffer real damage at altitude from mere blast. Its why warheads have nasty tricks like expanding continous rod or titanium shrapnel. AMRAAM and sidewinder have been going after the pilot for decades..its why they have the optical sensors on the sides..sidle upto the pilot (actually wait for 2 consecutive laser pulse returns) and apply a titanium buzzsaw to the face. Having said that the probability of pilots surviving is surprisingly high..its very difficult to kill a jet in such a way there isn`t time for the pilot to get out.

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Yeah try hitting that stupid F-14 meme machine with two AIM 9x and one AIM120c and watch it still fly away and the pilot eject safely. Wouldn't be surprised if one day it turns around and sends a AIM54 up my ass just because its an F14 and it feels like it.

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Yeah try hitting that stupid F-14 meme machine with two AIM 9x and one AIM120c and watch it still fly away and the pilot eject safely. Wouldn't be surprised if one day it turns around and sends a AIM54 up my ass just because its an F14 and it feels like it.

 

To be fair, the Tomcat is a huge plane. So it shouldn't be totally surprising that it doesn't just blow up when hit by those missiles. They're enough to cripple, but not necessarily completely obliterate the airframe. Heatblur went to alot of trouble to make it right and I trust that it is as lifelike as they could possibly make it.


Edited by CommanderRabb

Modules - F-18, F-16, Spitfire, F-5, Supercarrier, F-14, A10-C, MiG-21, Huey

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