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Experienced BF-109 pilots - help needed - right roll level flight


Mud

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  • 4 months later...
I use -26 aileron and can almost fly handsoff at 1.6 ATA just as described in this video:

 

 

How is being able to fly hands off your goal in a fighter? If you are looking for hand off, fly a Cessna 172.

TWC_SLAG

 

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Worse decision ever. Waste of money. It is impossible to fly this plane. It keeps rolling no matter what i do

 

The joke in the LW was the pilot had to have one leg longer than the other, to compensate for the torque. Hands off is not an option.

TWC_SLAG

 

Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.1mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte curved monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2.

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Worse decision ever. Waste of money. It is impossible to fly this plane. It keeps rolling no matter what i do

I have rarely heard such nonsense. Learn flying!

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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How is being able to fly hands off your goal in a fighter? If you are looking for hand off, fly a Cessna 172.
It's realistic, they had to fly stable and look out of the window 99% of their time...

 

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It is impossible to fly this plane.

 

No, it isn't. Just get a grip and THINK what you're doing and what you should expect and you'll certainly get the hang of it. The best of luck mate!

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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  • ED Team
Worse decision ever. Waste of money. It is impossible to fly this plane. It keeps rolling no matter what i do

 

Most new German pilots found it quite difficult too, I wonder how short the war would have been had they given up as fast ;)

 

It's a great aircraft once you master its idiosyncrasies...

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It's a great aircraft once you master its idiosyncrasies...

 

Absolutely agree with that.

On the other hand, we sometimes forget the incredible impact of a good quality joystick as well as a fine calibration.

After years of service, I recently changed my rudder/stick set. Since then, the bf109 has become another plane to fly!

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Any prop pilot has: eliminate yaw first, because the roll is primarily due to yaw. So, rudder = 0 is a great mistake.

 

Indeed, countering roll with aileron is a huge rookie mistake. Did the same thing for ages. You use mostly rudder for that.

 

And for these guys whinging about it being garbage because they can't figure out how to trim it, or that the aircraft is incapable of being trimmed out hands free.... wow.

 

You know, years ago, when I first came here, I was awed by the caliber of people here, I mean there are engineers and pilots from generations and you can learn a huge amount just browsing here. I genuinely have a lot of respect for some of the folks around here.

 

But over the years, I've found it's also very much a typical gaming forum/community with hackers, cheaters, entitled whining, e-raging etc @@ Oh well, I was naive what can I say rofl

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Absolutely agree with that.

On the other hand, we sometimes forget the incredible impact of a good quality joystick as well as a fine calibration.

After years of service, I recently changed my rudder/stick set. Since then, the bf109 has become another plane to fly!

I keep saying that all of the time, but people seems to forget/dismiss that information. The best I could ever do for my simulation experience was buying a good joystick (TM Warthog), then making an extension for it (~20+ cm), then (and that was recently) buying a harder spring for it. Not only it tastes absolutely like the real deal I could know, they're gorgeously accurate controls and a joy to fly with. A somewhat difficult to master aeroplane like Bf109 really changes with that like night and day.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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It's realistic, they had to fly stable and look out of the window 99% of their time...

 

Gesendet von meinem SM-G960F mit Tapatalk

 

They couldn't look out the window and fly the plane at the same time?


Edited by TWC_SLAG

TWC_SLAG

 

Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.1mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte curved monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2.

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Most new German pilots found it quite difficult too, I wonder how short the war would have been had they given up as fast ;)

 

It's a great aircraft once you master its idiosyncrasies...

 

 

I'll drink to that! I've just spent an age trying to get my money's worth out of the Bf109. Taking off was easy, (I can handle the Spitfire, so anything is a doddle after that) but I kept wrecking the engine/props 30 seconds after take off OR if I didn't do that I suffered engine cut-outs after a half a circuit!

 

 

 

But I hung in there, RTFM, watched videos and read forums and I came out the other side. It's a cracking aeroplane. DON'T GIVE UP on it.

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Reading through this thread led me to question the 'curves' thing.

Q1: Are the default settings for all DCS aircraft reflecting the real world flight dynamics?

Q2: If they are, are the 'curves' there to make things easier for people?

 

 

I've always felt that all aircraft are different and to fiddle about getting them to fly the way you want them to, rather than learn to fly them as they are, defeats the object of 'Simulation'.

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Folks, me included, mostly use curves because most off-the-shelf JSs have a much shorter throw than the real thing and you've got to compensate for that.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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mostly use curves because most off-the-shelf JSs have a much shorter throw than the real thing and you've got to compensate for that.

 

 

Yep. Once defined, the curves themselves remain (at least in my case) the same whatever the aircraft used.

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Q1: Are the default settings for all DCS aircraft reflecting the real world flight dynamics?
They do provided you have a controls setting similar to the real thing, should you don't then some tweaking may make the trick. It's not a question of easier or harder, it's a question of what makes it manageable for you and what don't bearing in mind your available controls.

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I have a 15cm (6") extension on my Warthog and for the most part, all the planes I use (WW2 warbirds and early jets) pretty well mirror the movement of the cockpit sticks so curves don't seem necessary.
Exactly. I have a roughly 20cm extension in the Warthog and still had to use some curves in pitch for the Spitfire to be controllable. Then I changed the spring for a harder one and all of a sudden I don't overcontrol any more and Spit can be flown with default straight input. The controls makes it all.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Manowar, that is my point for tight controls and noone understands.The tighter the contros the more linear u can run it.I put crosswinds at tightest spring and can dive towards target and place bullets on each side with ease.Light springs and its always spray and pray.

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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Tighter springs are just the thing if you're using a high quality stick such as the Warthog. With a common garden variety cheapo stick however, no go. You'll need light springs and some curves with those.

 

And the difference is indeed profound. I'm using a beat-to-crap T-Hotas set here, and keeping it well lubricated with light springs and some curves dialled in, it behaves well enough. But I was recently over at friend's a couple of weeks ago helping him setting up the DCS Dora and tried my usual setup with his Warthog - and let me tell you, it was bloody ridiculous! The amount of curves I set up just completely murdered the responsivity because the feel and the overall stability (for want of a better word) of that thing is so much better.

 

So it depends, but with a high quality controller even without an extension, you really don't seem to need any gimmicks because it behaves well enough as is. Just my £0.002 though, but this is what I found out.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Manowar, that is my point for tight controls and noone understands.The tighter the contros the more linear u can run it.I put crosswinds at tightest spring and can dive towards target and place bullets on each side with ease.Light springs and its always spray and pray.
Yep, a hard enough controls prevent overcommand and makes the trick, just like so many RL aircraft (not all of them though). That's where I got the idea.

 

 

Tighter springs are just the thing if you're using a high quality stick such as the Warthog. With a common garden variety cheapo stick however, no go. You'll need light springs and some curves with those.

 

And the difference is indeed profound. I'm using a beat-to-crap T-Hotas set here, and keeping it well lubricated with light springs and some curves dialled in, it behaves well enough. But I was recently over at friend's a couple of weeks ago helping him setting up the DCS Dora and tried my usual setup with his Warthog - and let me tell you, it was bloody ridiculous! The amount of curves I set up just completely murdered the responsivity because the feel and the overall stability (for want of a better word) of that thing is so much better.

 

So it depends, but with a high quality controller even without an extension, you really don't seem to need any gimmicks because it behaves well enough as is. Just my £0.002 though, but this is what I found out.

I completely agree, with a good enough setting you can have a good control in the sim. Just, people should realise what they are trying to mimic with regard to real aircraft controls and search for their best comfort. Curves are there to be used of course.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Yes,the tighter the stick the more you can rely on tension to change the axis movement.I don't even think stick extensions are necessary if you have a very tight stick that is also able to read extremely small changes in movement.

 

 

I use a warbrd stick but I have no stick and just use the base.This means its very tight to move the stick and for me DCS just feels way better.I cant wait for their new gimbal to start shipping as it will have a new cam/spring setup where instead of extension springs it will use compression springs which allow stronger springs to be installed.This hopefully will allow me to run an actual stick on the base.:joystick:

 

 

Hoping for this!!!

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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  • 3 weeks later...

I find the DCS prop fighters far too mellow when it comes to engine torque. The 109 is the better modeled of the two I own but I think it is far too milquetoast. It feels like a Cessna 210 in torque.

 

Every airplane requires you fly it all the time. There are some that you can carefully adjust the trim and get them to stay relatively stable for a few minutes in very smooth air but absent an autopilot you have to fly all the time, even if it is just with the rudders while your hands are busy with something else.

 

The bigger they are the easier they are in this respect. More mass to be displaced means more stability through the air mass.

 

The 109 is a very small airplane with a big engine. It would definitely require attention. And torque would be very obvious.

 

Those using modern pilot descriptions must remember they are absolutely NOT treating the airplanes like combat machines. Power applications are very slow, as he says in the video and they never get close to war time emergency power levels. If you fly them like that, they are pussycats. Fly them to the edge slamming the throttle stop to stop in a desperate fight and you have a different breed of cat altogether.

 

 

 

 

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