OB Update Delayed

I thought I read somewhere they had to release the Viper now to the stable so they could implement some core updates. So hopefully, we will see some soon.

;4113298']So is having to read these pointless threads. We already know its delayed' date=' there is a public announcement about it.[/quote']

 

But yet here you are reading it, no one forced you here. There are tons of threads for you to read instead.

Hi

 

As mentioned in the last newsletter we have a big push coming after this next update for the hornet.

 

I can tell you there has still been work ongoing for the hornet in the mean time, and I have personally been testing fixes for our hornet that will be in the next patch.

 

Thanks

it's always the same speech. it's always « next week« . it is always "when we have news we will announce it", it is always closed topics. Nick Grey has announced changes but nothing improves,

it's very tiring.

I'm in the same boat, I like the attention the viper has brought to DCS as a whole, but personally I'd like to see some real headway on the hornet made. Still a few large missing features and quite a bit of bug squashing that needs to be done, before I would start focusing on the Viper IMHO.

 

It seems like some features on the hornet are REALLY flushed out, like PGMs but At the same time we're still working with a really basic AA suite. No TWS, no AZ/EL, no A2A Lpod mode, no PFM for the 120s, no ground programmable Countermeasures (or Data Card), No Jammer, no Gen X. Walleyes are interesting and novel and SLAMERs will be very nice, but I wish the focus was on counter air, We have PLENTY of mud movers right now.

 

I feel like we have a A-18C and I like an F/A-18C

I don't think the A part of the A-18C is anywhere near done, but yes I agree the A/G is more done than the A/A. The PGM's we do have are like half done at best, or a "first pass", which is absolutely infuriating from my POV. Where is my PP mode for the HARM? Why do my JDAM's turn off when they shouldn't? Etc etc. I just don't understand why they can't just finish a system before moving on to the flavor du jour. ED isn't the only dev that does this though, but it baffles my as to why any dev would do it.

;4113298']So is having to read these pointless threads. We already know its delayed' date=' there is a public announcement about it.[/quote']

 

 

 

Just move along nothing for you to see here except people venting about valid complaints. Toxic posts just gas light frayed nerves.

Demonstrably false. Ed moved people

From working in hornet to working on viper. This has been going on for two months at least. Either:

 

A) those devs would have done nothing in which case I would have a bigger axe to grind

B) this has delayed releasing systems and fixes for the hornet.

You're so stuck in a negativity loop...

Not sure why anyone is surprised by delay.

 

These additions are more complex than others. The problem is ED keeps making announcements to feed the need, but cannot make the deadlines it sets. Why release VOIP when from what I've read the audio will be crystal clear and only have one channel for each side? This is yet again a completely unfinished add on being rushed out the door. If VOIP doesn't sound like a radio and cannot use frequency it is completely useless for online play. Best to keep it internal until its finished to a better state.

 

If I learned anything at BMS rushing things out the door just makes things worse; not better. Stop feeding the "got to have it new and now" people; its killing the sim.

Hallelujah!!!!!!

We are waiting for updates of the F18, and you tell us about a gift "DCS Voice chat" that will not be finished when it comes out of the box.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4112751#post4112751http://

We have huge plans for further development of the feature including automatically created rooms for multi-crew, radio support with real radio visibility depending on the power of actual radio units and terrain, etc.

We are waiting for updates of the F18, and you tell us about a gift "DCS Voice chat" that will not be finished when it comes out of the box.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4112751#post4112751http://

We have huge plans for further development of the feature including automatically created rooms for multi-crew, radio support with real radio visibility depending on the power of actual radio units and terrain, etc.

Yes, it’s not a gift it’s a another incomplete feature....again

I don’t unterstand why ED lose Time like this

So I guess this means the ‘push’ on TWS and the TGP for the Hornet is kicked down the road another week while the Viper gets sorted out?

So I guess this means the ‘push’ on TWS and the TGP for the Hornet is kicked down the road another week while the Viper gets sorted out?

Almost certainly.

Consider the possibility that work done on the Viper's capabilities is directly transferable to the hornet considering their similar roles and systems. If that is the case, then the devs moved to the viper might not have delayed say TWS for the hornet at all since they function so similarly, or at least very minimally.

Consider the possibility that work done on the Viper's capabilities is directly transferable to the hornet considering their similar roles and systems. If that is the case, then the devs moved to the viper might not have delayed say TWS for the hornet at all since they function so similarly, or at least very minimally.

I think that’s a rather vain hope. As we were told several times by the community when we asked why these capabilities couldn’t be developed on the Hornet then ported to the Viper ‘it’s not just plug and play, they need to create the interfaces between the module and the underlying tech.

The only way this would work is if TWS etc was completed in the Viper and the Radar guy is now back on the hornet, and I doubt that very much as the OB that was primarily about the Viper Radar would have to be being held up purely by the INS (which would make little sense) and because I’m sure that ED would have been very keen to tell us that the radar guy has moved back to the Hornet given how unhappy many people are at the delays to the Hornet caused by the Viper

Why release VOIP when from what I've read the audio will be crystal clear and only have one channel for each side? This is yet again a completely unfinished add on being rushed out the door. If VOIP doesn't sound like a radio and cannot use frequency it is completely useless for online play. Best to keep it internal until its finished to a better state.

I absolutely agree on the VoIP thing. It is way worse than Ciribob's SRS (which is really good) and useless in its initial state. No serious person will use it when there is SRS around until the point where both are at least on par. There will be some folks that will scream into the voice chat anyway and then you will have a fine mixture of spam and SRS sounds on the server. :thumbup:

SRS is a great thing indeed, and as good as it gets without having access to DCS internals. It's been serving us well for years and will continue to do so for a while.

However, internal VoIP implementation will be available for everyone out of the box. Once it matures, I'm pretty sure it will open up even more possibilities than what's available with SRS.

VoIP is released in early phase for the same reason we have early access - to test and collect feedback. It's very likely not interfering with any of the module related work.

SRS is a great thing indeed, and as good as it gets without having access to DCS internals. It's been serving us well for years and will continue to do so for a while.

 

However, internal VoIP implementation will be available for everyone out of the box. Once it matures, I'm pretty sure it will open up even more possibilities than what's available with SRS.

 

VoIP is released in early phase for the same reason we have early access - to test and collect feedback. It's very likely not interfering with any of the module related work.

So much this! Don't like to test the early state? Don't do it. Just like EA modules. Don't like EA? Don't like beta testing? Don't buy it, problem solved.

So much this! Don't like to test the early state? Don't do it. Just like EA modules. Don't like EA? Don't like beta testing? Don't buy it, problem solved.

Telling someone to not buy EA after he already bought a EA module (maybe his first) is super rude and doesn't solve anything. It's as bad as people complaining about barely alpha state EA modules.

So much this! Don't like to test the early state? Don't do it. Just like EA modules. Don't like EA? Don't like beta testing? Don't buy it, problem solved.

The whole "Don't buy EA if you don't like it" is double speak from both ED and others on this forum. The whole point of sending the Viper into EA was to keep the franchise afloat. So you're saying "buy it! but don't buy it if you're going to complain. We didn't twist your arm but we are saying that we wouldn't be profitable unless you buy in. But again, if you're going to complain, don't buy....but still buy otherwise this all goes away."

And when has ED released anything without it breaking other things in the sim? If you think a change in how radios work in game isn't going to effect modules, you might want to look around the cockpit to see if you can find radios in your aircraft. If you can, then the odds are, they will have issues down the line (both in stable and EA, since stable isn't a complete product by their own admission).

So much this! Don't like to test the early state? Don't do it. Just like EA modules. Don't like EA? Don't like beta testing? Don't buy it, problem solved.

The problem with this is when a module is stuck in EA for 3-5 years and then taken out of EA before all the features are complete. All the while there are more EA modules being released further delaying the earlier released modules from being completed.

The whole "Don't buy EA if you don't like it" is double speak from both ED and others on this forum. The whole point of sending the Viper into EA was to keep the franchise afloat. So you're saying "buy it! but don't buy it if you're going to complain. We didn't twist your arm but we are saying that we wouldn't be profitable unless you buy in. But again, if you're going to complain, don't buy....but still buy otherwise this all goes away."

They know that enough people like the concept of EA and taking part in the development of a product that it will both keep the lights on and enable them to test features with a broad audience. They sure as hell openly acknowledge that this might not be a concept appealing to everyone. I like it, and I will test the new VoIP implementation, even though the squad will stick to SRS until latter stages of the inbuilt VoIP.

So: noone is making you buy a thing if you don't want to, and no one is sugarcoating what the EA process really means. If that's not for you (generally speaking): don't take part in it.

And when has ED released anything without it breaking other things in the sim? If you think a change in how radios work in game isn't going to effect modules, you might want to look around the cockpit to see if you can find radios in your aircraft. If you can, then the odds are, they will have issues down the line (both in stable and EA, since stable isn't a complete product by their own admission).

Sometimes things break, sometimes they don't. Are we backtracking through the last dozen OB updates now and summing up which new stuff broke existing features and which didn't?

The pretend radios in our pretend airplanes will work as before, you know all that calling up menus and being able to communicate with the AI. It will also, in good times, get features that are present in a 3rd party product and that no one is taking away from said product, if you like to keep using it.

The problem with this is when a module is stuck in EA for 3-5 years and then taken out of EA before all the features are complete. All the while there are more EA modules being released further delaying the earlier released modules from being completed.

Which product (from ED, not from 3rd party devs) has been taken out of EA incomplete so far?

The whole EA discussion is getting reaaaaally old and boring now, but the "Don't like EA? Don't buy it" argument is very myopic and disingenuous. There are three fundamental issues with it from my perspective:

1. There's no established definition or bar for Early Access. ED could release an untextured, low-poly proxy model with no cockpit and it would still functionally be "Early Access".

2. In the absence of a clear definition for Early Access, everyone's going to have their own personal bar of an "acceptable" level of completeness. I haven't been negatively impacted by the lack of TWS in the Hornet, or the absence of external lights in the Viper... but then I don't fly online against F-14's, or spend my time flying formation in night missions.

3. The whole "Don't like EA, don't buy into it" argument implies that customers leave their right to have opinions and perspectives at the door when they buy an EA module. If there's no definition for EA, and everyone has their own bar of an acceptable EA feature set, then these conversations are necessary and inevitable.

I'm actually very pro-ED and pro-EA, but trying to shut down (constructive) criticism of either is counterproductive and unhelpful (as much as it's deflating-as-hell to come back to the same old arguments on the forum, day-after-day).

I'm actually very pro-ED and pro-EA, but trying to shut down (constructive) criticism of either is counterproductive and unhelpful (as much as it's deflating-as-hell to come back to the same old arguments on the forum, day-after-day).

With this sort of thread replicating every few days, I have yet to see constuctive criticism. But perhaps me, being very pro-EA as a concept and not in a hurry (I wouldn't mind if the Hornet takes, say: 5 years or longer to be feature complete, others somehow seem to do), is just tired of seeing the same old arguments on the forum, day-after-day. I should get back to bug reports and answering questions about modules that people want to know about.

Ok guys, I know some of you want to discuss this, but if you cant do it without insulting each other, then please don't.

 

We still have forum rules, feel free to review them, also look at the one about redundant posts as well. We are where we are on the manpower for the Viper and The Hornet, we are almost back to the Hornet push, we are just trying to get this next patch out. Nothing really left to say.

 

Some people like early access, some people would rather have finished aircraft, chances are the development time wouldn't change whether you were given early access or not, in fact it might be longer as we get a wider testing sampling.

 

So I know some don't like this, but Early Access isn't for everyone.

So are you talking about the redundant "ED is so great" posts too are just the ones that provide any kind of critique?

Has ED even considered once that the current practice of how EA is handled isn't exactly working? I think instead of always pointing the finger at your paying customers, it may be time to do some self reflection while the lights are still on at the ED office.

Just a thought.