Things that worry me about the Viper

While i’m sure with time the FM, weapons etc will get ironed out, there are some things that I just have that funny feeling they will never get done in a timely and satisfactory fashion:

 

1. RWR sound library. We all know what the RWR is supposed to sound like, each radar has a different chirp. Now, are we going to see this pretty substantial and SA-Enhancing feature of the F16? When?

 

2. Stores drag. This is a big one, it somewhat defies all logic that a sim such as DCS has issues / doesn’t model stores drag. Not only that, but pylon drag and weight is not even considered in any module apparently. What’s ED’s stance on this big issue?

 

3. Data cartridge and all functions such as: Mfd presets, CMDS programs, flight planning and timing, additional threat symbols and lines that can be displayed on the hsd.

 

4.MFD symbology looks strangely washed out, especially blue lines. Any hope for a fix?

 

 

Would be nice to hear about these things, and as much as ED hates it, remember we are all comparing your F-16 to the other sim that can’t be named. You have a lot to live up to, even when discarding the surrounding environment (dynamic campaign, AI, etc) but considering just the jet itself. Please, get it right, this icon of aviation deserves nothing but the most accurate and complete representation.

While i’m sure with time

 

It's an early alpha version..... things are broken and buggy. No need to worry about anything just be patient :)

I don’t know why you think it doesn’t model stores drag? Mine certainly does!

stay tuned.

If the prolems still occur when ED call it Finished, THEN we can worry.

 

Currently we just talking about ED doesnt priorize the Tasks not the way we would probably like to see but they will have there reasons and they will do a proper job.

Lets wait with the panic until later :D

2. Stores drag. This is a big one, it somewhat defies all logic that a sim such as DCS has issues / doesn’t model stores drag. Not only that, but pylon drag and weight is not even considered in any module apparently. What’s ED’s stance on this big issue?

 

there is pylon drag on almost all modules

there is pylon drag on almost all modules

 

Stores drag or pylon drag? They are two different things. The sure thing is, pylons in DCS have no weight. Try removing pylons from the f-18 and you have no difference in weight from the load out screen, and no performance difference in flight. I’m pretty positive that pylon drag and weight are not taken into account, which is not a small issue IMO.

 

E.g. take two identical aircraft, same fuel. One is loaded with Mavericks and triple ejector racks, the other has only two AIM-120s on the wingtips. They both jettison all weapons except the wingtip missiles and enter a dogfight. Obviously the cleaner one should have an advantage over the aircraft that still has TERs and pylons hanging under the wings...

Stores drag or pylon drag? They are two different things. The sure thing is, pylons in DCS have no weight. Try removing pylons from the f-18 and you have no difference in weight from the load out screen, and no performance difference in flight. I’m pretty positive that pylon drag and weight are not taken into account, which is not a small issue IMO.

 

E.g. take two identical aircraft, same fuel. One is loaded with Mavericks and triple ejector racks, the other has only two AIM-120s on the wingtips. They both jettison all weapons except the wingtip missiles and enter a dogfight. Obviously the cleaner one should have an advantage over the aircraft that still has TERs and pylons hanging under the wings...

 

 

In terms of the Pylon weight/drag of the F/A-18, it is there even if you take it off. If you recall, the ability to remove the pylons came some time after release, after the FM was done. It's purely cosmetic when you take them off.

Real RWR sounds please!!

It's been in Early Access for two days...sure,.it's a bit rough but let's give ED a chance here before worrying and just be thankful that we finally have the F-16 in DCS. I am thinking (and really hoping) that the pace of improvements and new features will be faster than previous modules.

ED needs to come up with a litmus test for EA modules. If you can't pass the test, you have to wait until release to be able to purchase the module....

ED needs to come up with a litmus test for EA modules. If you can't pass the test, you have to wait until release to be able to purchase the module....

 

I agree. For Early Access, in my opinion I think the F-16 is fantastic. Sure there are things that need to be worked on, but that is the risk you take when you purchase anything EA. I think its time for ED to celebrate with a little champagne for releasing such a beauty.

To all that say "don't report issues, it's early access" ---> Now is the right moment to "complain" and report issues so to be addressed during the early access. If people wait to report what they find after it is considered finished - it is too late. This is the main purpose of EA or betas, get feedback from the user base and polish/fix it.

It's a fun module but I honestly think ED should have held off release for another month or so to complete more features and iron out a few more bugs.

To all that say "don't report issues, it's early access" ---> Now is the right moment to "complain" and report issues so to be addressed during the early access. If people wait to report what they find after it is considered finished - it is too late. This is the main purpose of EA or betas, get feedback from the user base and polish/fix it.

 

So obvious, yet for so many it seems so hard to grasp this very simple concept.

Probably because Early Access release has become synonymous of release. Make no mistake, there will be no other release than this for the F16, just as it was for other modules.

The cash is in, we’ll get 3-4 months of developer focus, after that, it’s on to the next money cow and the F16 will go into maintenance mode just as the Hornet did before this release.

Besides, when would be a good time to worry about missing features or reporting bugs?

In 5 years maybe? Come on guys, cut it with the “it’s EA” catch-all argument. If you truly understand EA, as you claim you do, then you should know better than me that this is the time to test the hell out of this, cry to get what we paid for and have our voices heard to help the devs with our feedback.

To all that say "don't report issues, it's early access" ---> Now is the right moment to "complain" and report issues so to be addressed during the early access. If people wait to report what they find after it is considered finished - it is too late. This is the main purpose of EA or betas, get feedback from the user base and polish/fix it.

 

There's a difference between "I found this issue, this is how you recognize it, this is how you replicate it" and "I'm worried, it's so unfinished, I was expecting more, boo boo boo"

To all that say "don't report issues, it's early access" ---> Now is the right moment to "complain" and report issues so to be addressed during the early access. If people wait to report what they find after it is considered finished - it is too late. This is the main purpose of EA or betas, get feedback from the user base and polish/fix it.

 

What you are doing versus what you think you are doing:

 

Whining that something is not correct versus creating an actual bug report.

 

Whining about items that are already reported or have already been discussed by ED.

So you all remember the rwr sound mod for a10c which actually used f16 sounds, does that work for the now released f16? :music_whistling:

Believe me, many features in many games not just DCS, were introduced because enough people were "crying" about them in the forums.

 

Which doesn't mean I support a constant complain and cry about stuff which was already reported and confirmed fix/no fix.

But OP specifically mentioned stuff he is worried (may be "not sure" was more correct expression) will not be addressed in the early access, it doesn't necessary needs to be a bug so to be reported as a bug. A discussion if some feature is accurate or not, if something is correct or not will not harm, and EA is the most suitable time for such threads, when stuff can still be adjusted corrected.

 

The OP doesn't look like whining or complaining at all, he brings some topics for discussion and consideration. There is also a difference between whining "oh it's not completed it sux" and "hey guys do you consider to adjust that as it doesn't look correct now because of this and that".

He has a point - the ED have guys have replied to endless similar questions up and down over the last weeks, I wouldn't have used his words though.

He has a point - the ED have guys have replied to endless similar questions up and down over the last weeks, I wouldn't have used his words though.

 

I didn't comment on any point specifically simply as I am not sure if they are discussed or not, just that such discussions are fine for EA module, this is the purpose of EA.

If something is already discussed or answered elsewhere an answer such as "It was discussed in this thread "link"" would be better and more useful than just bashing other people.

 

And before you say "use search function" it doesn't always provide accurate results. Also bringing a topic again not always hurts.

 

And btw, a way to pre-configure the navigation system is so needed that it has to be asked every day :) Some modules has it, so why not to ask for f-16 too.

Could you please hold your epithets for somewhere else ? Thanks.

No, I am an asshole to people that deserve it.

 

Now, not everyone can go trough all the forums and reports for the last 11 years or so,

This is hyperbole at its finest. Just casually browsing the forums, watching the YouTube Videos and even checking out FB posts for JUST THE VIPER you would have these details.

 

so if you know something was already confirmed, you can just reply "hey it was already discussed, they wont do it."

Or you can simply do a search before you post something. Or you could post a simple, "hey, I haven't seen it mentioned, is this something that is in the works?" and then you would get the type of response you want.

 

To justify "hey this is what's wrong, when is it going to be fixed" is a complete distortion of reality.

it's day 3, there's only been three days, I don't know what timeframe you complete detailed system simulations in, but three days would be too quick to gauge even an estimate for the development pace.

ED needs to come up with a litmus test for EA modules. If you can't pass the test, you have to wait until release to be able to purchase the module....

 

I like this idea!!!!!

 

no ToS stuff

 

before you click purchase you have to pass a test or check OK on notifications LOL

 

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND 80% OF THE THINGS IN THE JET IS NOT WORKING OR IMPLEMENTED"

yes

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND FM ISN'T DONE AND THERE WAY MONTHS OF WORK"

yes

"WILL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS STUFF ON FORUMS"

yes

 

you have failed the test and cannot purchase until product is released. thank you

 

:lol:

I agree. For Early Access, in my opinion I think the F-16 is fantastic. Sure there are things that need to be worked on, but that is the risk you take when you purchase anything EA. I think its time for ED to celebrate with a little champagne for releasing such a beauty.

 

 

No one forces us to buy EA modules.