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Valve Index Hands On


aileron

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I have some doubts about Index with the possible issue of lacking 3D in the center of the screen. A possible problem is because of specific Index design with spread and different angled displays which add additional FOV but reducing overlap in the center what affecting on 3D in the center of the view.

 

On Tested they mention it too but I don't like their reviews in general because in the past I notice they make it very superficial and in general without some details on some specific issue like this for example.

How this will affecting in DCS we need to wait for some proper DCS user review.

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the quality of the rift s in real life is another example of why you can’t always trust white papers, speculative forum posts or youtube’rs.

Not exactly, I was expecting such results from RS in general even, according to the real user's reports, it is more than was expected.

I didn't try RS yet personally so maybe for me will be exactly as I was predicting but in general, specs were showing this could happen.

 

You should always trust the specs m8.

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@Harlikwin - Yeah, none of them are deal breakers and can be easily overcome. #2 and 5 are the worst of it, and 5 doesn't happen often if you cover the sensor.

 

 

#2 is the one that happens most often that causes me some pain. Easily fixed, but you have to get used to rocking in your chair at the hangar menu to see if its a problem. That way you don't get all the way in and realize you have to restart the process...

 

#5 doesn't happen if you launch the game from inside the headset - press the Windows menu in the cliff house and bring up the Desktop from Apps, then launch the game. You'll never see that issue ever again (even without the sensor covered). If you get used to just using the virtual desktop it also makes #2 a little easier - as you can re-run the setup to get 6DOF back without taking the headset off, just alt+tab and press Windows to bring up the Cliff House & Desktop, then run the set-up, then click the SteamVR window and Alt+Enter to go full screen.

 

I don't even bother turning my monitor on anymore, just switch the PC on, stick the headset on and run everything from there.

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#5 doesn't happen if you launch the game from inside the headset - press the Windows menu in the cliff house and bring up the Desktop from Apps, then launch the game. You'll never see that issue ever again (even without the sensor covered). If you get used to just using the virtual desktop it also makes #2 a little easier - as you can re-run the setup to get 6DOF back without taking the headset off, just alt+tab and press Windows to bring up the Cliff House & Desktop, then run the set-up, then click the SteamVR window and Alt+Enter to go full screen.

 

I don't even bother turning my monitor on anymore, just switch the PC on, stick the headset on and run everything from there.

 

 

:thumbup: You never stop learning. Nice to know that.

I guess actually, we have to start using WMR as it is designed to work.

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:thumbup: You never stop learning. Nice to know that.

I guess actually, we have to start using WMR as it is designed to work.

 

There's a couple more things that might be handy to know - when you're in the cliff house you can move around with your mouse, just hold right-click and a teleport circle will appear, move it where you want to go, mouse-wheel moves the little arrow on the outside and changes the way you'll be facing when you let go. You can rearrange any of the floating windows (like Desktop, SteamVR) by clicking and dragging the top bar, if you mousewheel while holding left-click it'll move the window closer/further away.

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@backspace340 - thank you sir! Those are great tips. Will try them out!

:pilotfly: Specs: I9-9900k; ROG Strix RTX 2080ti; Valve Index HMD; 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram; Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD; TM Warthog with pedals, 3 TM MFDs

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The next major technology breakthrough will be the eye tracking, but it is way too hardware demanding for accuracy and speed how well the human eye does move, and how "slow" the eye is to refocus. Oculus well presented these challenges couple years ago in some event that is available in youtube too.

 

But that would turn possible render only a fraction of the high resolution LCD panels at 100% resolution, everything else soft and at very low resolution. And if it would work optimally, you would not notice that anything is soft as you look around. And yet you would get multifold performance benefits as you render basically everything at VGA resolution and only that very tiny proportion of the screen at 2K/4K.

 

Before that, Valve Index kind devices are just playing with hardware and making software compromises to get it run well enough.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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The next major technology breakthrough will be the eye tracking, but it is way too hardware demanding for accuracy and speed how well the human eye does move, and how "slow" the eye is to refocus. Oculus well presented these challenges couple years ago in some event that is available in youtube too.

 

 

 

The Vive Pro Eye is already available for purchase by the way. EUR 1376 + VAT

 

https://enterprise.vive.com/eu/product/vive-pro-eye/

New VR Simpit: Intel 10700K, MSI Seahawk X 1080Ti (waiting for 3080Ti or 3090), 32 GB 3600MHz RAM, HP Reverb, TM Warthog

 

Old VR Simpit: Intel 4790K, Asus Matrix 780Ti, 16GB RAM, HTC Vive

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With all the 'hands on' videos and reviews now out since testers and promoters have been receiving their Index in recent days, I'm getting more and more convinced that it's the right way to go for me.

 

I wouldn't have touched a Vive or -Pro, but this is a whole different prospect and I'm definitely more excited about it than I was with the Oculus offerings I tried. Just need one of those reviewers to go and sit in a DCS cockpit...

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With my Rift CV1 I had my sensors set up on my desk, one on each end and tracking was always great.

 

So if I were to go with the Index, will I need to do some type of elaborate wall mounting scheme for those sensors?

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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I doubt it - they come on a little stand (the Constellation sensors) and I saw images of them just sat on a shelf in a set-up (on Valve's own pdf guide)

 

HERE

 

Ok thanks for the link.

Will have to give that some thought and figure out how I could make that work for my area.

I certainly am interested.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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no, not necessary. You could mount the boxes as well on tripods or any photohragher compatible equipment, like clips or simply put the box on furniture.

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

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no, not necessary. You could mount the boxes as well on tripods or any photohragher compatible equipment, like clips or simply put the box on furniture.

 

Ah ok that makes sense, thanks.

I will likely wait for reviews from folks in here before investing that kind of money into a new setup. I think I would prefer it though over a WMR device.

 

I could see me going with the Index for my flight simming, and assuming my replacement Rift S will be ok I will have it for my Oculus Touch games.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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The Index is the only one I would get from the new headsets, but recently I could get aware again how much sharpness and clarity you could get out of the Pimax with a combination of render target and pixel density in addition to the large FOV... I think the Pimax could in 3 years still be state of the art, if performance could get improved.

 

For the Reverb, I think people might regret purchasing it. The 60Hz WMR mode is not good and meant for movies, not 3D games. Running the resolution of the Reverb in DCS is as same challenging as with the Pimax resolution and the Reverb has nothing more to offer than its resolution.

 

When coming from one of Oculus´ headsets, the Index will be the most perfect upgrade for sure for DCS.

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

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I also went with Index this round. Let’s just say that it covers all the bases and is also the most expandable and scalable if you want to explore beyond sit down sims. Other than the initial higher cost, it will likely satisfy most buyers.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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I also went with Index this round. Let’s just say that it covers all the bases and is also the most expandable and scalable if you want to explore beyond sit down sims. Other than the initial higher cost, it will likely satisfy most buyers.

 

Yeah that initial high cost is the tough part. I have the money, just hard for me to part with it until I know more about how it will be in flight sims.

Heck I could have both my Oculus Rift S and add a Quest which is intriguing and still spend less than I would have on the complete Index setup.

 

Yes the key for me will be hearing from actual users on the forums before I decide to part with 1k.

If the difference is that substantial over the Rift S I will then seriously consider parting with the cash.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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The lighthouse boxes are a good investment. I´m still using the lighthouse boxes, which I bought together with the Vive some years ago and I believe, they could be also of use for the next VR headset.

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

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@RePhil - You don't need the Steam Version of DCS. Stand alone will do. You will need the SteamVr software for the drivers for the index.

 

 

I run O+ headset with stand alone DCS through SteamVR for WMR just fine.

do all the maps function in steam?

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I'm wondering to what extent I'll be able to use opencomposite with the Index. Hopefully, without issue.

 

Otherwise I s'pose it will require Steam to be running whenever I'm in VR and I could do without that extra resource drain.

 

I've been using opencomposite for a few months now (with CV1) and it's been very good, especially with flight sims.

Kneeboard Guides

Rig: Asus B650-GAMING PLUS; Ryzen 7800X3D ; 64GB DDR5 5600; RTX 4080; VPC T50 CM2 HOTAS; SN-1 Pedals; VR = Pico 4 over VD Wireless + Index; Point Control v2

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With my Rift CV1 I had my sensors set up on my desk, one on each end and tracking was always great.

 

So if I were to go with the Index, will I need to do some type of elaborate wall mounting scheme for those sensors?

 

I have mine over the door frame in front of me, but for a long time I used it mounted over the monitor with a universal camera to monitor click, and you only need one base station for simulators.

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I have mine over the door frame in front of me, but for a long time I used it mounted over the monitor with a universal camera to monitor click, and you only need one base station for simulators.

 

Ok sounds good, thanks.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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@Voight - You said 60hz on WMR, but I run 90 on my O+ now. Do you mean 60 because of the Reverb resolution? Or because WMR won't support 90? The latter is untrue...

:pilotfly: Specs: I9-9900k; ROG Strix RTX 2080ti; Valve Index HMD; 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram; Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD; TM Warthog with pedals, 3 TM MFDs

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Yeah I am not sure why he said that as the Reverb has a 90Hz refresh rate.

 

In fact, all WMR's currently available all have have 90Hz refresh rate (Acer, Samsung, Lenovo). There are some other earlier units that also had 60Hz (VREngineers and Pimax 4K), but nothing popular any longer.

 

The only new headsets out that DON'T have 90Hz or higher is the Rift-S (80Hz) and Rift Quest (72Hz). The Valve Index will be 120Hz and a experimental 144Hz mode but it will support lower refresh rates as well from what we have been told.


Edited by Madmatt_BFC
Why not

A-10C, AV-8B, F-16C, F/A-18C, KA-50, Mi-8, UH-1H, FC3, CA, WWII, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf

 

Gaming Rig: I7 7700k @5GHz, Corsair H115i Water Cooling, 32GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3600MHz DDR4 SDRAM, Aorus GeForce GTX 1080Ti, 2 x Samsung 960 Pro M.2 1TB NVMe SSD's, Warthog HOTAS w/ Slew mod, MFG Crosswind Pedals, 2 x TM Cougar MFD's, Oculus Rift-S, TrackIR 5, Asus ROG PG3480 34" GSync Monitor @3440x1440-100Hz, Asus 27" Monitor @1920x1080-144Hz, Windows 10 x64

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