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Trim button bugged


porky_pig

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Im reporting this one on the fly, so I havent had a chance to do a forum search yet. Sometimes hitting the trim button will freeze the aircraft and it will become unresponsive until it starts responding, or crashes into the ground. Once in a while, hitting the clear trim button, the problem goes away until next time. This happens in both of the helicopters.

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Do you have 'Center Trimmer Mode' checked in the Options screens? If so, are you aware that once you hit the trim button, the controls do not respond to input until after they have been returned to the center position?

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same here same problem

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Do you have 'Center Trimmer Mode' checked in the Options screens? If so, are you aware that once you hit the trim button, the controls do not respond to input until after they have been returned to the center position?

Yes I do, and Im aware of that. The problem is that it doesnt respond at all from time to time no matter what I do.

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What about trying to disable "Central position trimmer mode", or add a little deadzone to your axis?

Has nothing to do with the joystick not responding, its the helicopter that freezes. I liken it to turning on the autopilot in the Ka-50 when I hit the trim function, as it will fly straight and in the same bank angle when I clicked the button. As a matter of fact, I think it has everything to do with autopilot. I dont use the autopilot in the Huey since it doesnt have one (but available as an option in the settings). In the -50 you can reset it by turning off the autopilot and untrimming the aircraft. Guess I should post tracks to show you what I mean, but these happen from time to time, not all the time.

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mine doesnt happen but from time to time. Ill get no movement and heli continues to the last trim but when I let go of the button and wiggle the joystick it will respond.:joystick:

" any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, "  W Forbes

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts,"  Winston Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," 

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Porky, if you want it to stop, uncheck that $!#@!'d up Central trimmer, or you can just argue.

Non force feedback stick, therefore its needed. I wouldnt check the box if I didnt need it. Legitimate bug, should be fixed, and Im not arguing. :thumbup:

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You don't have to use central trimmer even if you lack a FFB stick.

 

In fact, I don't know any high skilled pilot using central trimmer mode, everyone I know of use the old way.

And I dont understand why Im having to be harangued through this topic discussing a bug by offering a solution I dont like. The central trimmer mode is to keep your aircraft from tilting excessively forward when you trim which isnt needed if you had a FFB stick. If it effectively simulates FFB in a non-FFB stick to a slight-but effective degree, Im going to use it. I apologize, but this isnt much of an argument at all. Its a bug, it should be addressed as such.

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Guess I should post tracks to show you what I mean...

 

Yes. A track will be needed if anyone is to investigate this as a bug.

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And I dont understand why Im having to be harangued through this topic discussing a bug by offering a solution I dont like. The central trimmer mode is to keep your aircraft from tilting excessively forward when you trim which isnt needed if you had a FFB stick. If it effectively simulates FFB in a non-FFB stick to a slight-but effective degree, Im going to use it. I apologize, but this isnt much of an argument at all. Its a bug, it should be addressed as such.

 

Well... you're getting feedback from people who quite likely have a better understanding of the various Force Trim options available.

 

Your description of the problem matches what people run into when they have the Central Position Trimmer Mode selected, and then are not able to get their stick and/or pedals centered well enough for the sim to see them as centered and then begin accepting new inputs. That is the risk you run by using that mode. It may be that you need to set a larger deadzone for your stick, or for your rudder control (or both). Yes, if you have not followed PeterP's mod for unchaining the rudder, then the rudder input could be doing you in.

 

If you uncheck that Central Position Trimmer Mode option, you still have a Force Trim mode available to you that does not need the use of ForceFeedback. What it will require you to do is quickly re-center your controls, to avoid having them add additional control inputs.

There is a very good thread on this older, original BS 1.0-style method:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35444

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Well... you're getting feedback from people who quite likely have a better understanding of the various Force Trim options available.

 

Your description of the problem matches what people run into when they have the Central Position Trimmer Mode selected, and then are not able to get their stick and/or pedals centered well enough for the sim to see them as centered and then begin accepting new inputs. That is the risk you run by using that mode. It may be that you need to set a larger deadzone for your stick, or for your rudder control (or both). Yes, if you have not followed PeterP's mod for unchaining the rudder, then the rudder input could be doing you in.

 

If you uncheck that Central Position Trimmer Mode option, you still have a Force Trim mode available to you that does not need the use of ForceFeedback. What it will require you to do is quickly re-center your controls, to avoid having them add additional control inputs.

There is a very good thread on this older, original BS 1.0-style method:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35444

Ok. Ill explain in depth one last time.

 

Clicking the trim button (on occasion)against the laws of physics locks the aircraft in the attitude the aircraft was in when the button was clicked until it either crashes, or starts to respond again. Does NOT matter if the stick is centered or not. Does not matter if the stick was centered or not. I have experienced this a few times when the aircraft will hit the ground and drag across the terrain for a few seconds without registering a crash. Then when the stick is responsive again, it registers as a crash. I dont even get rudder input. I dont know why this is so difficult to understand......the trim button, when clicked on occasion, will lock the aircraft. Sometimes clicking the untrim button fixes it. Usually it doesnt. Which is why Ive reported this as a bug.

 

Now here is a problem with unchecking the tick box for center trim. I cant start any mission without it ticked because then the aircraft becomes unstable (Huey) and will throw blades away instantly, or fall out of the sky after the mission loads. Startup on the deck is ok, but not when the engine is up and running when you load the mission. No, I dont fly online, no I dont want to fly online.


Edited by porky_pig
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Porky_pig...

 

What is most likely happening here is that your stick is not returning to centre properly. It may physically be returning to centre but sometimes if the pots are dirty or if the calibration has drifted the software reads it as slightly off centre putting it outside the zone that DCS World accepts as being centred.

 

There are a couple of ways to fix this...

 

1) Recalibrate your stick using the windows calibration software in the game controllers section of your system settings. This will also give you a handy little graphic to check that you are are getting a proper return to centre.

 

2) Set a small deadzone for all your axis in DCS world. That can help smooth out a slightly cranky stick.

 

3) You can increase the size that DCS:W accepts as being centred. I can't remember off the top of my head how to. But a forum search will reveal it I'm sure.

 

You should also check that if you have rudder pedals attached that you aren't resting your foot heavier on one side causing an input that throws the centre position off. Also in controls setting unbind all axis that you aren't using so that you don't get inputs from things that also may throw it off.

 

I have had this exact problem with an old x52 that was a bit sloppy around the centre position and would refuse to properly return to centre. I fixed it with a combination of method 2 and method 3.

 

But just to be clear... this is not a bug. The central position mode will lock the controls solid until it detects ALL control axis are at the central position. If DCS:W never detects a valid centring of the axis due to bad calibration, centre slop, or insufficient deadzone it will do exactly as you have described.

 

Go and try the things I have suggested. Or uncheck central position mode, which will still trim the helo as it pauses control input momentarily to allow you to manually centre your controls yourself.

 

I can 100% guarantee you, following the above advice and the advice of others in this thread will resolve your issue.

 

Good luck.

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Porky_pig...

 

What is most likely happening here is that your stick is not returning to centre properly. It may physically be returning to centre but sometimes if the pots are dirty or if the calibration has drifted the software reads it as slightly off centre putting it outside the zone that DCS World accepts as being centred.

 

There are a couple of ways to fix this...

 

1) Recalibrate your stick using the windows calibration software in the game controllers section of your system settings. This will also give you a handy little graphic to check that you are are getting a proper return to centre.

 

2) Set a small deadzone for all your axis in DCS world. That can help smooth out a slightly cranky stick.

 

3) You can increase the size that DCS:W accepts as being centred. I can't remember off the top of my head how to. But a forum search will reveal it I'm sure.

 

You should also check that if you have rudder pedals attached that you aren't resting your foot heavier on one side causing an input that throws the centre position off. Also in controls setting unbind all axis that you aren't using so that you don't get inputs from things that also may throw it off.

 

I have had this exact problem with an old x52 that was a bit sloppy around the centre position and would refuse to properly return to centre. I fixed it with a combination of method 2 and method 3.

 

But just to be clear... this is not a bug. The central position mode will lock the controls solid until it detects ALL control axis are at the central position. If DCS:W never detects a valid centring of the axis due to bad calibration, centre slop, or insufficient deadzone it will do exactly as you have described.

 

Go and try the things I have suggested. Or uncheck central position mode, which will still trim the helo as it pauses control input momentarily to allow you to manually centre your controls yourself.

 

I can 100% guarantee you, following the above advice and the advice of others in this thread will resolve your issue.

 

Good luck.

Goddamnit. Does anyone actually read? One last time. My joystick is centered. The trim button was previously clicked. I KNOW THE AIRCRAFT STICK WILL NOT WORK UNTIL IT IS CENTERED. Ive known this for quite a while now. The aircraft freezes. DOES NOT WORK. When I am unlucky enough to get the bug again, Ill post a track. Thanks.


Edited by porky_pig
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Goddamnit. Does anyone actually read? One last time. My joystick is centered.

 

YOU did not centre it fast enough. Centre it faster and this will not happen.

 

No bug - working as intended.

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Porky... please read my last post very carefully. Particularly the section concerning the joystick being physically centered, but not interpreted by the software as such. Perform the suggestions I have made and then come back.

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Porky, since you essentially keep saying the same things over and over again, and getting the same sort of response/reaction from a number of different people on here... perhaps that should lead you to question either your explanation, or your assumptions.

 

Let's try to bring some new information into this.

 

-What make and model controllers are you using for cyclic and rudder control?

 

- What size deadzones do you have set for those?

 

- While we all understand that you had your stick physically centered, we don't know if your computer saw it as electrically centered. Are you sure your stick was *electrically* centered (ie. within the center deadzone)? If so, how did you ascertain this?

 

- Do you have your rudder controls decoupled (ala PeterP's mod)?

 

- If your rudder controls are not decoupled, are you sure your rudder control was *electrically* centered? If so, how did you ascertain that?

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I dont know why I have to keep repeating myself. Ive been flying Black Shark since it first came out. In russian. 5 years ago. Im pretty sure I know how to use the trim function by now.

 

When it happens again -and it will- I will post a track file. I know "full well" what you are talking about. This bug I am referring to IS NOT A CENTERING ISSUE.


Edited by porky_pig
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Ok here is one for the Ka-50. Im mainly concerned for the Huey since its more severe than this, as I cant recover from it. In the -50 I can. This is just a me-screwin'-around-to prove someone wrong track so dont judge the flying.

 

Towards the end of the flight, Ive centered the stick and rudder, and then pushing both pedals in and out repeatedly for 1 whole minute, as well as giving 100% play on the cyclic in a full 360. Nothing for one whole minute (or whatever). When it happens in the Huey, I will post another track, and it is totally different from this bug in the Ka-50, which is what Ive been trying to explain to everyone for the last 3 pages. Again, one last time, in the Huey, the only tick box I have ticked is the centered stick box, and the rudder is unlinked in the H-1.

Ka-50 trim bug track.trk


Edited by porky_pig
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