my FFB2 seems lame, what am I missing?

I have had an MS FFB2 in storage a long time and just started using it again to see how it is. I get force feedback effects, such as speed-dependent resistance and shaking in the FW-190. But it doesn't seem all that exciting to me. I know I could disable the dead man switch and get the stick to stay in place in the Ka-50. That doesn't seem like a big deal either. Neither makes me want to switch from my warthog stick with a long extension.

A lot of people seem very excited about force feedback. What am I missing? Is it just about feeling the plane getting close to stall pretty much? Or does it help you formation fly by feeling movement if you have everything correctly configured?

Please convert me :)

IMO force feedback is a love it or hate it kinda thing. I never cared for it. Felt too fake/cheesy for me.

Theoretically you get physical feedback from the game in a linear output up to the maximum of the stick's hardware torque, but the consumer FFB sticks like the FFB2 and G940 were always a bit weak due to the size of the device, so you are basically feeling all the forces in your palm and wrist if they are tuned properly at all (IIRC there is no way to prevent clipping where FFB demand > max stick torque on the FFB2 since there is no driver control panel for the actual stick anymore, but I never used it with anything but the simFFB app and helos). The canned effects are way out of scale in that case and it would be best to be able to disable them totally.

Compared to a grip on a stick like your extended Warthog, the loss of precision and throw distance, build quality, overall feel is probably enough to turn you off, I get it, but if you could get smoothly and realistically varying force on your Warthog and retain everything else it might be preferable.

A thing I like when implemented is the center position of the stick adjusting with trim. With a trimmed FFB stick the deflection angle that remains is realistic, by opposition to a full deflection including dead zone before stop for a stick with spring.

I hope all the FFB effects will be implemented to Hornet (trim + forces changing with G's and AOA over 22°), FW190A8 (trim + aero forces from propeller, air flux forces and stall being there already).

I also like forces smoothly decreasing to zero with "no center" near stick released position - nice for AAR or any small imputs situations, with only thumb and 1-2 fingers. But compared to FFB2 a spring stick with extension may be even better ?...

That said a good FFB DCS stick needs more precision (than FFB2 or other very old sticks) and a grip realistic or with many buttons/china hats. GAUSS seems to be it (but expensive !!!).

I couldn't go back to non FFB. Completely killed my desire for Virpil/VKB. It just feels more alive. I love it for helo trim especially. The F14 FFB implementation is also really good, in particular the stick shakes proportionally to AoA, so you can gauge it by feel. I added an extension and changed the grip on mine and it solved a lot of the issues I had with precision and lack of inputs.

Thanks for all the time you folks took giving your views. I guess I will keep it on the shelf for now and if FFB support for the F-18 is some day amazing, then revisit it.

JoeyJojoJunior: how much did you extend it? I read on another forum that a realistic stick extension would end up with only about 1lb of force left?

PLUS … I've not thought about that, but with a important trim forward (like often with A10C), the FFB stick still allows you to reach the full elevators backward position, because the stick is out centered forward from non trimmed center position.

But with a spring stick that stays in center when trimmed forward, if I don't say craps, you can't reach the full backward elevators position, and that limits your possibility to make small radius turn in dogfight for exemple.

I mean it seems to me that only a FFB stick allow you to fully control your plane when using a strong trim !? Wich make FFB trimming mandatory in some way !?

I made a little draw for better clarity :)

JoeyJojoJunior: how much did you extend it? I read on another forum that a realistic stick extension would end up with only about 1lb of force left?

12cm extension using this part: https://www.shapeways.com/product/QDSU4NS69/force-feedback-2-to-thrustmaster-adapter-120mm?optionId=63770860.

I did a mod that boosts the current going to the motors by 2x. You just have to solder 8 resistors on top of some existing ones. Feels about the same as stock with the extension, if not a bit stronger. Details in this post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152723

I made a little draw for better clarity :)

 

[ATTACH]217657[/ATTACH]

You can use saturation or custom curves to make the non-FFB stick reach maximum output before it reaches its physical limit and then "flatten out". If this issue is a problem to you, then you would sacrifice a little bit of the range around the outside of your stick as an allowance for the maximum deflection from trim. I have to admit, I never thought about that before though :)

12cm extension using this part: https://www.shapeways.com/product/QDSU4NS69/force-feedback-2-to-thrustmaster-adapter-120mm?optionId=63770860.

 

I did a mod that boosts the current going to the motors by 2x. You just have to solder 8 resistors on top of some existing ones. Feels about the same as stock with the extension, if not a bit stronger. Details in this post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152723

That's cool, thanks for the links! So yes, it does decrease the force effect but you can hack around it by running your FFB stick at twice the current that it was designed for? Seems safe :) :joystick:

That's cool, thanks for the links! So yes, it does decrease the force effect but you can hack around it by running your FFB stick at twice the current that it was designed for? Seems safe :) :joystick:

Yeah, exactly. I was a bit worried at first, but people have been running the mod for years now with no ill effect. MS really built these things well. The power circuit area does get a bit warm to the touch, but not too bad. I always unplug it after use anyways.

I have had an MS FFB2 in storage a long time and just started using it again to see how it is. I get force feedback effects, such as speed-dependent resistance and shaking in the FW-190. But it doesn't seem all that exciting to me. I know I could disable the dead man switch and get the stick to stay in place in the Ka-50. That doesn't seem like a big deal either. Neither makes me want to switch from my warthog stick with a long extension.

 

A lot of people seem very excited about force feedback. What am I missing? Is it just about feeling the plane getting close to stall pretty much? Or does it help you formation fly by feeling movement if you have everything correctly configured?

 

Please convert me :)

Disable the stupid deadman switch and fly with your fingertips.

The BIG thing about FFB is you can actually trim properly, which once you fly for real even once, you can't stand not having.