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Weird flight directional stability


GumidekCZ

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If they have the capability to fly the K-4, as I said before in other threads, I'll pay for 1 hour of flight, where we can test the behaviour to see if it matches the game. Whos' with me?

 

convincing Volker Bau to fly dcs 109 with a good hotas and rudder system for 1 day would probably reveal more.

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good hotas ain't good enought it would require soem custom build FFB stick :) a lot of feed back from plane is send through stick to the pilot in those planes.

Another issue is connection between player and DCS as i noticed pilot in dcs will hold centre position on stick no matter what is happening and i think its no realistic too especialy while flying at great speeds correct me if im wrong

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What's your experience with ww2 aircraft grafspee?

 

Non

 

 

but i understand all of it but why only bf109 dont act similar to rest of ww2 planes in dcs

in p-51 i dont use alevator trim or aielron trim only rudder same in spitfire fw190 has tendency to pitch up/down while accelerating or decelerating but not crazy like in bf109 i was just curious about that i dont want to change anything i just wanted to know more heh :)

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convincing Volker Bau to fly dcs 109 with a good hotas and rudder system for 1 day would probably reveal more.
Yeah, because Nick Grey's own experience with two Buchons at hand I guess isn't enough for you.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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problem is that very few ppl flying those type of planes to day or maby someone did fly ww2 era plane here ??
Well, I did fly in a WWII veteran Tiger Moth :lol: .

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Non

 

 

but i understand all of it but why only bf109 dont act similar to rest of ww2 planes in dcs

in p-51 i dont use alevator trim or aielron trim only rudder same in spitfire fw190 has tendency to pitch up/down while accelerating or decelerating but not crazy like in bf109 i was just curious about that i dont want to change anything i just wanted to know more heh :)

It's being explained soo many times before. It's not just a trim question, it's a torque one, if you fly low speeds with high torque (that's max. 1.42 Ata for instance as you did in the video) the nose has indeed a pitch up tendency which is not there at the very same Indicated Airspeed but in a lower Ata, say 1.2. It's a design feature, 109 is a so small aeroplane with a so high power engine while also so small control surfaces that it can't be tamed that easily.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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if you fly low speeds with high torque (that's max. 1.42 Ata for instance as you did in the video) the nose has indeed a pitch up tendency

 

Happens with the other warbirds as well. F.ex. the DCS Mustang has a nasty habit of flipping over and darting in if you throttle up rapidly while going slow.

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different engine, different fuselage, different everything, ugly as hell..nope its not a 109.

 

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So what we have here is yet another WW2 whiner thread. Someone starts complaining, the lead dev responds, gets ignored, and whiners throw the rest of their toys out of the pram. Do you guys realize that you're actually 100% predictable, because that's just how all these BS threads go?

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different engine, different fuselage, different everything, ugly as hell..nope its not a 109.
Same fuselage, same everything (you haven't look that much what's inside one of them), just a different engine and license built so officially named Me109J from BFW factory. Well it is a 109 whether people like it or not, I don't really understand that stubbornness of some people trying to say it wasn't just because they don't like the RR cowl. Provided it weren't it wouldn't be so "easy" to convert into a regular 109 and every airworthy G model out there comes from a Buchon, G-2, G-6, G-10, G-12, all of them former Buchons. Remember you fly with the wings and those are exactly the same as any late 109, indeed 25 of them were actual BFW frames :music_whistling:.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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:lol:

on the one hand you say it has a different cowling, and on the other you say it has the same fuselage. lol

then you say, "same everything, just a different engine":doh:

and u really seem of the opinion that only the wings have aerodynamic influence on flight behvaviour .:megalol:

nope, its not a 109, its a Buchon.


Edited by birdstrike
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  • ED Team
:lol:

on the one hand you say it has a different cowling, and on the other you say it has the same fuselage. lol

then you say, "same everything, just a different engine":doh:

and u really seem of the opinion that only the wings have aerodynamic influence on flight behvaviour .:megalol:

nope, its not a 109, its a Buchon.

 

There is no significant difference regarding the nose shape. The key things for longitudinal properties are the wing, the stab, the wing-stab distance. More minor is the parts of the fuselage AT THE MAXIMAL ARM from CoG.

 

The same is for directional stabillity.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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sure, there are similarities. yet many differences, beginning with a completely different engine. its not the same. and CoG is probably not identica either besides what they have in common.

anyway if you decide to develop another 109 one day, then please a proper one, and not that ugly brother.:)


Edited by birdstrike
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The 109s have airfoil shaped rudders and for some reasons the Spaniards failed to notice. This was done to compensate for the prop slipstream. Considering that Merlins spin the prop the other way around compared to DBs, a Buchon is bound to handle like crap. And that's consistent with all reports I have read.

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The 109s have airfoil shaped rudders and for some reasons the Spaniards failed to notice. This was done to compensate for the prop slipstream. Considering that Merlins spin the prop the other way around compared to DBs, a Buchon is bound to handle like crap. And that's consistent with all reports I have read.

 

What way DB spins the prop and what way Merlin??

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Substitute Merlin with Hispano Suiza and you got what I wanted to say. The later Merlin Buchons have a completely reworked front fuselage, cog, thrust line, shaft angle and cooling array. No comparison really.


Edited by rel4y

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

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Substitute Merlin with Hispano Suiza and you got what I wanted to say. The later Merlin Buchons have a completely reworked front fuselage, cog, thrust line, shaft angle and cooling array. No comparison really.

 

The key word is what is the amount of this changes to airframe aerodynamics. Not for drag but mainly for moment characteristics/ And if you investigate this matter, you will see that these changes are minor regarding the lateral stability.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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The key word is what is the amount of this changes to airframe aerodynamics. Not for drag but mainly for moment characteristics/ And if you investigate this matter, you will see that these changes are minor regarding the lateral stability.

 

despite this fact bf109 equiped with not inverted v12 looks not right. bf109 fuselage fits only with inverted v12 for me

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lol.gif

on the one hand you say it has a different cowling, and on the other you say it has the same fuselage. lol

then you say, "same everything, just a different engine":doh:

and u really seem of the opinion that only the wings have aerodynamic influence on flight behvaviour .megalol.gif

nope, its not a 109, its a Buchon.

Key is what you call fuselage, as is obvious. For me the airframe is the fuselage, you take out the engine and you won't tell the difference between Buchón and any Bf109G. So don't put words I didn't say in my mouth just trying to show your "superiority" in language handling as I'm no native. I can also laugh at your stupidity, but hey, we shall not fall down that road, right? :thumbup:

 

The 109s have airfoil shaped rudders and for some reasons the Spaniards failed to notice. This was done to compensate for the prop slipstream. Considering that Merlins spin the prop the other way around compared to DBs, a Buchon is bound to handle like crap. And that's consistent with all reports I have read.
We Spaniards did notice mate, you failed to read or know the whole story so let me put that away for you. Those airframes were first engined using a Hispano Suiza CCW rotating (from cockpit) prop as opposed to CW rotating DB and RR engines, so tail airfoil was build according to that "new" engine.

 

There's a story about how DB engines and tails failed to arrive together with those firsts 25 Bf109G-2 airframes (funny, engine-less airframes :doh:) but that's not true. Those airframes were bought without engines, and tails were unnecessary since they planned from the beginning the use of a different engine. Always glad to uncover bullshit urban legends for you, welcome :thumbup:.

 

Later on HS engine was dumped due to fitting problems and were changed with RR they could get hand at, those firsts airframes were already built so for those airfoil shape was kept at first but then converted while the remaining newly built after that features the "correct" airfoil for RR rotation. There are airframes with the two tail shapes out there, some of them rebuild with restorations, some of them not. Lets get it straight, "wrongly shaped" tails were mostly dismissed in Spanish service or converted to the right shape, but since current Buchóns came from a scrapyard recovery for the well known film some of those recovered airframes featured the old "wrong" tail shape but those who bought them after the film shot were so eager to own and fly a 109 :P they didn't pay attention or cared at all about what shape they got nor tried to fix it until years later when restorations and conversions to regular 109 started.

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=205024&stc=1&d=1551012421

 

There's a special case, and that's the two seat ones which were built first with HS engine and then RR re-engined but as there were only two of them tail shape (special tall G-10 tail) was kept (previous pic showing that is from a two seater). So, I don't know what reports you have read but the ones I have don't say they handle any bad, usually the opposite.

 

 

S!

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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despite this fact bf109 equiped with not inverted v12 looks not right. bf109 fuselage fits only with inverted v12 for me
But 109 prototype did feature a RR not inverted engine :music_whistling: . You mean aesthetics, which is fine but negligible for aerodynamic purposes.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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But 109 prototype did feature a RR not inverted engine :music_whistling: . You mean aesthetics, which is fine but negligible for aerodynamic purposes.

 

 

S!

 

i meant only visual

bf109 with not inverted v12 looks uber wierd for me :P

looks like multipla

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