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Su 27 question


Aries101

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Thanks for help guys. I will now do what most new pilots do. Fly airport circles. Thant should give me some feel for plane I hope. Also if I understand correctly, best bet would be to aproach ar 300-320 km/h up to outer marker and establish 4 m/s sink rate in full landing config I presume. Then from that point I need to also watch for my AOA not to exceed 9° (to be on save side). I hope that i will be able to learn in time what speed I can expect on certain weights and that config. Another thing to learn should be I guess correct aproach altitude, especialy on airports with no ILS. Btw, how do you setup ILS? Is it done automaticaly when you ask for guidance to airport? I ask that cos I usualy fly on servers and I mostly canot make any waypoints there or anything (or at least I dont know how to do that)...

So.. off to log some tailhits..khm...flight hours lol

Your AoA controls your airspeed. An AoA of "x" at a gross weight of "y" will always yield an airspeed of "z" (assuming 1G flight). So, in that sense, there's nothing to learn. Coming down the slope with an AoA of 9° will always give you the correct airspeed for your weight in that configuration. That's the beauty of flying an aircraft with an AoA indicator. Civil aviation, with its lack of this instrument in the cockpit, is forced to think about it backwards--which is what you are still currently doing.

 

Your altitude at the IAF (IAP) should be roughly 1100 m. The ILS sets itself up automatically in FC3 aircraft. You might want to refer to this post for the Russian aircraft, however: PRMG (Russian ILS Equivalent).

 

You can manually select which airport to land at. Once you're in RETURN mode, zoom your HDD out and cycle through the airbases using the CTRL+`key combo until the path line goes to the one you want.

 

And, because I don't trust TRK files to play back correctly consistently, here's a video of the landing. I definitely have to replace my flight stick. I need such a huge deadzone now that all finesse is gone:

 


Edited by Ironhand
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YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Oh, damn!

 

Now I saw where I was making mistake. I actualy was comming down "about right" but I also raised my AOA on touchdown instinctively and I should not to do it since I was about right AOA anyway. That is why i raise my nose too high and have tail strike. You almost did not flared in classical terms there. very aproach was on about 8-9 deftree AOA. I saw this also on real Su-27 on youtube. Thanks. i think this was moment I needed to see. Now only thing left is to go out and practise..Still i would live to learn to manipulate with HDD. There are so much damn shortcodes that I am most of the time lost. SO far I was able to learn basic ones. But when i am in some practise multiplayer server, i am usualy in "blank" plane. So I need to make some flight plan. That is most likely done in RL too i guess. I will look up some HDD guide..I am guessing that there is some arround

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Oh, damn!

 

Now I saw where I was making mistake. I actualy was comming down "about right" but I also raised my AOA on touchdown instinctively and I should not to do it since I was about right AOA anyway...You almost did not flared in classical terms there...

That's where my lack of finesse comes in. I should have flared a bit more than I did but I knew that my sink rate at that point was within acceptable limits. So I didn't worry too much about it. Normally I would flare a bit more to lose lift and, then, push my nose down a bit to make sure I was at less than a 10° pitch (not to be confused with AoA) at touchdown.

 

 

...Still i would live to learn to manipulate with HDD. There are so much damn shortcodes that I am most of the time lost. SO far I was able to learn basic ones. But when i am in some practise multiplayer server, i am usualy in "blank" plane. So I need to make some flight plan. That is most likely done in RL too i guess. I will look up some HDD guide..I am guessing that there is some arround

Some of these have probably changed but... Su-27 Keyboard Charts. 2nd image: Display Zoom In, Display Zoom Out.

 

There are more commands than I can remember. The ones I use frequently are mapped to my flight stick. Other than that, I often have to look things up.

 

Have fun!

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Thank you. I made simple test mission in editor yesterday wich i use to practise bombing and unguided rockets fire, and i had awsome landing. Btw...Wich is currend DCS version. I have 1.5.8 and i think i have problems with finding decent server...Is there better choice for 2.0?

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...and i had awesome landing.

YES!!! :thumbup:

 

 

... Btw...Wich is currend DCS version. I have 1.5.8 and i think i have problems with finding decent server...Is there better choice for 2.0?

1.5.8 is the current Caucasus map. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to fly online for several months. So I'm not the best person to advise you on this.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello

 

I am back again. I have now solid basic flying skill. Unfortunately i suck at air to air situations. I also downloaded that mission pack here from website wich was uploaded from one of users. Awsome pack but only plane I was able to defeat was F4 :(( F14 constantly misses my missles in radar mode, be it close range or BVR. I am guessing I am doing something wrong, so I would like advice on how do you use do it? I used 74ER missles but both missed. ET ones too.

 

Anyway. i apreciate any tips about missles duel :)

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Not sure what you already know, so I'll cover a few of the basics. Your missiles miss for one of three reasons. Either they 1) run out of energy, 2) get decoyed, or get "notched".

 

This video might be of some help. It's part of a project I was working and still haven't finished. But, hopefully, it'll give you some pointers.

 

 

 


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Well. Very nice video, but I admit I did not understood too much of it. i would suggest that you draw some markings in video so we can understand about what mark on hud or HDD you are talking about. But it did heled a bit. I am now almost positive that I got notched and released too early. 2nd time I tried i was most likely too late and oponent managed to outmanouver missle. Additional problem is that I do need some simpler way of managing radar systems. typing on keyboard while trying at same time to hold throttle leaver and joystick isnt too practical. If it helps, i got Thrustmaster Hotas X joystick. With weapon systems on joystick head (fire first and second weapon, target lock, switching weapons and pow hat is used fot acquiring targets on radar. on throttle I got 5 buttons and analogue horizontal lever wich i use for rudder. 2 buttons are infront (used for trimming up and down) and 4 at back side to be pressed by thumb. Now I am not sure what to map here, so i mapped optics sensor, radar on/off, countermeasures. and on base i also got 3 buttons wich have ECM, trim reset and landing flaps. I am thinking to map top button on back as Modifier so i can get another layer of controls. Suggestions ar ealways welcome. In meant time I will hone my skills on those training air to air mini missions.

 

P.S. Cant wait finished video myself (I hope it is whole series :)

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Well. Very nice video, but I admit I did not understood too much of it. i would suggest that you draw some markings in video so we can understand about what mark on hud or HDD you are talking about. But it did heled a bit. I am now almost positive that I got notched and released too early. 2nd time I tried i was most likely too late and oponent managed to outmanouver missle. Additional problem is that I do need some simpler way of managing radar systems. typing on keyboard while trying at same time to hold throttle leaver and joystick isnt too practical. If it helps, i got Thrustmaster Hotas X joystick. With weapon systems on joystick head (fire first and second weapon, target lock, switching weapons and pow hat is used fot acquiring targets on radar. on throttle I got 5 buttons and analogue horizontal lever wich i use for rudder. 2 buttons are infront (used for trimming up and down) and 4 at back side to be pressed by thumb. Now I am not sure what to map here, so i mapped optics sensor, radar on/off, countermeasures. and on base i also got 3 buttons wich have ECM, trim reset and landing flaps. I am thinking to map top button on back as Modifier so i can get another layer of controls. Suggestions ar ealways welcome. In meant time I will hone my skills on those training air to air mini missions.

 

P.S. Cant wait finished video myself (I hope it is whole series :)

:) I normally have arrows, etc. pointing to what I'm referring to. This is unfinished, however, and so those indications are part of what's missing which it hasn't been released on my YT channel for public consumption. I just figured it might still be helpful.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Great video, thanks for taking time to do it. It even has some of my favorite Ironhand quotes ("this is why we fly", "we do not shoot at..." etc.) :-)

 

I think that the HDD scale number has a somewhat different interpretation though. The number displayed is the length in kilometers of the line underneath it, just like on paper maps. This line should actually be 1cm long, so e.g. if it HDD scale is displayed as 10 then the scale is 1cm/10km = 1:1000000.

 

Now, it may be that the physical size of the display is 10cm from the own ship symbol to the top edge, in which case the two interpretations are really the same.

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Great video, thanks for taking time to do it. It even has some of my favorite Ironhand quotes ("this is why we fly", "we do not shoot at..." etc.) :-)

 

I think that the HDD scale number has a somewhat different interpretation though. The number displayed is the length in kilometers of the line underneath it, just like on paper maps. This line should actually be 1cm long, so e.g. if it HDD scale is displayed as 10 then the scale is 1cm/10km = 1:1000000.

 

Now, it may be that the physical size of the display is 10cm from the own ship symbol to the top edge, in which case the two interpretations are really the same.

I forgot that that was in there. My description is what used to be years and years ago. It changed when I wasn't looking. That "test" video was made before I noticed the change. Thanks for bringing it up again.

 

 

...Additional problem is that I do need some simpler way of managing radar systems. typing on keyboard while trying at same time to hold throttle leaver and joystick isnt too practical. If it helps, i got Thrustmaster Hotas X joystick. With weapon systems on joystick head (fire first and second weapon, target lock, switching weapons and pow hat is used fot acquiring targets on radar. on throttle I got 5 buttons and analogue horizontal lever wich i use for rudder. 2 buttons are infront (used for trimming up and down) and 4 at back side to be pressed by thumb. Now I am not sure what to map here, so i mapped optics sensor, radar on/off, countermeasures. and on base i also got 3 buttons wich have ECM, trim reset and landing flaps. I am thinking to map top button on back as Modifier so i can get another layer of controls. Suggestions ar ealways welcome. In meant time I will hone my skills on those training air to air mini missions...

 

I just got a new stick myself with a single hat switch, which I still have to map. I used to have an X-52 which worked great because of its two hat switches. That alone gave me a lot of flexibility. I also use TIR, so neither hat had to be used for viewing.

 

As I'm setting up my stick, I am setting up snap views with closeups of the HUD, HDD, and Berioza as well as a single view that includes the instrument panel from the ADI/HSI gauges over to the AoA gauge and down to the clock. They all become important during an engagement. I am also setting up buttons for radar on/off, Survey/Passage Tracking mode selection, PRF mode selection, and EOS on/off. The radar cursor, for now, is controlled by the hat switch. And, for the time being, I still use the keyboard for the HUD range scale.

 

Buttons also control trim up and down, flaps, and speed brake. Eventually I'll add the clock functions along with weapon selection.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Sorry, I didn't realize this has come up before. But it wasn't me, must have been someone else.:)

:) Like I said, I had forgotten that misinformation was in there or I would have mentioned it. So thanks for bringing it up.

 

Is the HDD size clocked to factor 7?

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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I did tried to use some new knowledge now, so I switched to Hi my radar, locked target but F14 nailed me several times fast. Since countermeasures did nto worked in combination with hard turn, I presume that he used better radar missle than me. That 73 series missles are or garbage, ro just not for this kind of engagement, but it was only 73ET and ER what I had offered. Another thing is that damn npc pilot now reacted much better than last time I flew that mission. That was surprise aswell. I mean it is simple head on one on one mission scenario in BVR mode. Should be simple enough...but it isnt. Kinda close to ragequit. I do hate tgames that makes me p...ed off . It just isnt fun getting blown off sky all the time.

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I went and reviewed that mission pack and it looks that it is from 2013, so it might have been version problem, not sure. Anyway if you have some nice mission fole made for trainning (ground targets, air targets...etc, i would apreciate if you could share it :)

 

Up to then, i will at least hone my flying skills. :pilotfly:

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I did tried to use some new knowledge now, so I switched to Hi my radar, locked target but F14 nailed me several times fast. Since countermeasures did nto worked in combination with hard turn, I presume that he used better radar missle than me. That 73 series missles are or garbage, ro just not for this kind of engagement, but it was only 73ET and ER what I had offered. Another thing is that damn npc pilot now reacted much better than last time I flew that mission. That was surprise aswell. I mean it is simple head on one on one mission scenario in BVR mode. Should be simple enough...but it isnt. Kinda close to ragequit. I do hate tgames that makes me p...ed off . It just isnt fun getting blown off sky all the time.

If you can, post the mission in question here. I'll take a look at it.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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...locked target but F14 nailed me several times fast....

 

Just realized that you are talking about taking on a Tomcat that's lobbing Phoenix missiles at you? That's very ambitious! His reach is about 5X greater than yours. :)

 

Might be fun, though. If I have time this afternoon, I might set up a mission just for fun. Be interesting to see how many AIM-54s I can avoid after the first one.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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try sneaking up on him instead of missile jousting. fly low and preferably behind hills until you are beneath him. dont turn on your radar until you are at his six. have at him! remember, gun kills are the coolest kills. keep the long sticks for bomber intercepts.

I5 9600KF, 32GB, 3080ti, G2, PointCTRL

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Well. I went and tried same mission file again today. In my surprise I saw 27 ER on list. So I tried several approaches which all failed. Only think that worked first time was, wait for missle fire, then engage ecm when it gets a bit closer and eject few countermeasures. That drove missle wrong way. It was actually my first sucessfull missle fired avoidance situation. But then again after that I just could not see nor lock on Tomcat so next one from him was hit and that was it. I did watch few vids on youtube and I just cant understand how they can see opponent in the air.? Only thing I see is a missle after it is fired. I am a bit bored by now with trying to hit anything besides static stuff on ground. :cry:

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I did tried to use some new knowledge now, so I switched to Hi my radar, locked target but F14 nailed me several times fast. Since countermeasures did nto worked in combination with hard turn, I presume that he used better radar missle than me. That 73 series missles are or garbage, ro just not for this kind of engagement, but it was only 73ET and ER what I had offered. Another thing is that damn npc pilot now reacted much better than last time I flew that mission. That was surprise aswell. I mean it is simple head on one on one mission scenario in BVR mode. Should be simple enough...but it isnt. Kinda close to ragequit. I do hate tgames that makes me p...ed off . It just isnt fun getting blown off sky all the time.

 

Why are you going against F-14 Tomcats? That is one of the toughest AI opponents in the sim.

If you're learning the basics then set up the basics, go up against MiG21s, F-5s, F-4s or MiG-23s then work your way up to tougher opponents like M2000/MiG29/Su27 >MiG31/Su30/F-15/16/18/14s.

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Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10

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I admit I had no idea about that. F4s was no threat with a bit more care i guess i could get it even sooner. next mission in line was F14, so i presumex that is a bit tougher..i guess they are not set up in any order... i will try to go up by your list then.

 

I got one more question. Can you recomend me graphics settings where I culd have best cucsess in seeing enemy (I got GTX 1050, I3 3,7 and 8 GB of ram).

In pane textures are on 1080 I think, but rest are atm on low. I still need to learn abit more about topics of spotting target. :helpsmilie:

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...I am a bit bored by now with trying to hit anything besides static stuff on ground. :cry:

EDIT: I screwed up. Didn't realize that, somehow, the AI in the mission I first posted for you was set to Escort. This fixes that. Try this one instead. I'm also posting two tracks from it. In the first, I use a combination of -27ERs and -27ETs. In the second, I only use -27ERs. I never expect that first shot just inside R-Max to hit. It' simply used to force a maneuver of some sort. And any sort of maneuvering your opponents does at those ranges will deplete your missile's energy before it can reach him. I start looking for the kill with the 2nd shot.

 

I prefer putting my opponent on my left side because, then, I can use the vertcal range bar to show me the absolute limit for the radar antenna dot. There's nothing on the right side of the HUD to definte it quite so clearly.

Su-27 vs Su-27-Good.miz

Su-27 vs Su-27-01A.trk

Su-27 vs Su-27-01B.trk


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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In relation to landing the Su-27...

 

IMO the biggest difficulty is that, if you fly at 8-10º AoA towards the head of the runway, the IRST sensor at the plane's nose obstruct your view of the head of the runway. To overcome this you have to come with smaller AoA (higher speed) until you're so close to the runway that you don't need visual contact to its head anymore, then you increase AoA and reduce speed by slowly flaring...

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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