The AI is really getting out of hand

Like.. really... They are the immersion killer, they are broken and they are unfair.. Sure fine and dandy if your in a FC3 plane or M2000C, but others.. its near impossible, i was in my MiG 15, scored a 2x 37mm HEI shot into a f-86 and... it did ntohing, abousloutly nothing, fire an early ww2 tannk cannons into a Aircraft, sure thats realistic, maybe it was just bad luck, then socred 5x 23mm shots into its wing, what did it do? Make a white smoke trail... Then ran out of ammo.. Why cant we get that in our planes? Like if i take 1x 50cal hit and my engine is done.. AI can also outperform, out climb, out run and out gun most aircraft below MiG 21, hows this called fun?

hows that deemed worthy of out running and out turning me? all at 300kmph

Try lowering the AI skill level; I find that they push their aircraft less when on Average or High skill levels and I get more kills. It doesn't fix the SFM damage model issues but at least it'll make dogfighting easier.

The SFM damage model is pretty funny sometimes. Yesterday I fought an AI Fw-190, blew off an entire half of the horizontal stab, an aileron, and he was pouring out smoke, but carrying on like nothing happened.

why pretend to fight against people when you can fight against real people and avoid all this nonsense at the same time?

why pretend to fight against people when you can fight against real people and avoid all this nonsense at the same time?

It's the intimidation factor and confidence. The AI may beat you all of the time but it doesn't judge you afterwards. I'm not saying that a majority of people will, I'm saying that it's human nature to believe that they will.

It's truly intimidating to go against strangers in servers for many. I absolutely get that.

why pretend to fight against people when you can fight against real people and avoid all this nonsense at the same time?

A lot of people feel as if PvP is seal clubbing for new guys. You have people who have been flying PvP for 10+ years vs guys that just found this "game" on Steam two days ago. Especially the FC3 aircraft. Last time I joined a server it was two sides in F-15Cs throwing AMRAAMs at each other in mountains. There was a few M2kC vs MiG-21Bis matchups but it wasn't often. That's not realistic at all and I want no part of it. A lot of new people and vets feel the same way and simply relegate themselves to creating/playing singleplayer and coop missions. Hell I've been dabbling with this sim since LOMAC 1.02 and I've got maybe 30 hours of PvP MP.

TL;DR a lot of the "silent" community don't deal with PvP because it's been WIP since FC3 dropped.

i think it is quite silly and ironic that the urgency this thread seems to imply can be attributed to what is really nothing more than irrational, self-generated fears and self-prescribed conditions. the problem is more with the pilots than the planes. how can you expect to get better if you don't gain experience? there is no way to weasel your way around it, short of asking for everyone else to stoop down for you.

anyways not saying a better ai end isn't warranted but i think this is something undeserving of any degree of hysterics.

i think it is quite silly and ironic that the urgency this thread seems to imply can be attributed to what is really nothing more than irrational, self-generated fears and self-prescribed conditions. the problem is more with the pilots than the planes. how can you expect to get better if you don't gain experience? there is no way to weasel your way around it, short of asking for everyone else to stoop down for you.

 

anyways not saying a better ai end isn't warranted but i think this is something undeserving of any degree of hysterics.

I understand your point. Getting better is an option. I get that. However, when you have people who want to simulate modern air combat with other players, and expect things to run with a semblance of parity to the real world only to discover the most popular server is each side throwing AMRAAMs in the Georgian mountains is rather off putting. I actually enjoyed FC2 pvp for quite a bit, and I enjoy BMS pvp A LOT as I spend most of my BMS time in either pvp or the rare pve blufor vs redfor events when they come up. Sure some people don't like multiplayer games period. That's their choice and for a sandbox type game that DCS is they should be able to enjoy their singleplayer just as much as we do our coop or pvp. Some people don't like the PvPs current state and instead prefer pve and coop. I am one of those. :)

duly noted. i hope more people who enjoy structured missions make an effort to be active in mp though, otherwise it would be forever relegated to sp and i think that would be more harmful to the entire health of dcs in the long term.

supply depends on demand but also vice versa, which leads to an awkward chicken or egg dilemma so some people have to make the choice to lead the charge. that is why i want to encourage people to have the willingness to go online in the first place despite the perceived challenges.

duly noted. i hope more people who enjoy structured missions make an effort to be active in mp though, otherwise it would be forever relegated to sp and i think that would be more harmful to the entire health of dcs in the long term.

supply depends on demand but also vice versa, which leads to an awkward chicken or egg dilemma so some people have to make the choice to lead the charge. that is why i want to encourage people to have the willingness to go online in the first place despite the perceived challenges.

I think as the community grows due to different modules being released and the publicity of the sim increasing we'll have a larger pool of structured guys who will be able to set up realistic scenarios and guide new people through them. Some of this relies on ED doing their part in ensuring the environment we do this in is up to snuff, but also relies on more groups like the 476th showing up and growing. Community outreach could also be improved in my opinion. For example the Message tab on the left side of the start screen could be used for more than just "WE HAVE STUFF ON SALE". Community events and things of that nature could be advertised there. ED is a company and companies are here to make profit, that's clear, but it couldn't hurt if the community were nudged to get more involved. Not saying ED doesn't care about the current meta though. We can tell ED cares and wants to improve the pve aspect due to potential AI changes that have been announced. We can tell pvp is being looked at due to ongoing missile changes as well as flight performance at different altitudes for different weapons/aircraft.

I prefer multiplayer but sometimes it can be hard to find a decent server with enough people on. (PST). I dont' care much about which aircraft I fly since I own them all but I'd rather see Western Planes vs Russian Planes instead of all the F-15 vs f-15 Servers.

I prefer SP Campaigns and missions, especially making my own. Like many, its the convenience of flying when I like that's important and not having to team up with anyone or disappoint!

I think ED are aware if the shortcomings of the AI.

The damage modelling is wrong. A fifty calibre hit should accrue some damage. Several fifty calibre hits should be very effective. I can score quite a few hits with the F86 into its opponents, with no effect.

The AI pilots are all supermen! They fly very well all the time and never get G lock!

I think its only time before things will improve. The Red Flag Campaigns are a success, all have modern equipment though and to be honest its the older Jets and WW2 aircraft that suffer...In my honest opinion.

Before the WW2 maps are out, I bet ED will have a better AI model.;)

Regards

David

+1

why pretend to fight against people when you can fight against real people and avoid all this nonsense at the same time?

Problem, a lot of aircraft and units are strictly AI...

Some of the most arrogant, patronizing and full of assumptions comments can be found on this thread. Everyone plays single palyer because they are afraid of going against other people. Yeah, right... Besides, even if that was the case, how that makes his point about how broken the ai can be any less valid? Probably most of the problem can be explained due to ai use of SFM, but that doesnt make it any less anoyinng when you have a plane maneuvering as new with its wing full of giant holes.

i think it is quite silly and ironic that the urgency this thread seems to imply can be attributed to what is really nothing more than irrational, self-generated fears and self-prescribed conditions. the problem is more with the pilots than the planes. how can you expect to get better if you don't gain experience? there is no way to weasel your way around it, short of asking for everyone else to stoop down for you.

 

anyways not saying a better ai end isn't warranted but i think this is something undeserving of any degree of hysterics.

I don't think that people would expect others to stoop down for them. Nor do I see anyone in hysterics over it. I believe that many people just don't feel confident enough to go up against others who may be at a much higher skill level than they are.

Everyone has to learn rudimentary skills before they can go out and get shot down with any kind of confidence. My 6 year old son is the poster child for this point. He's learning baseball for little league. He's not slow or uncoordinated. He's just never played ball before and lacks the confidence to go out and play with other boys that he knows are in their 2nd season and are much better than he is. All of my words of support in the world won't change his human nature of not wanting to go out and be embarrassed. It just takes a lot of one on one time, frustration (on his part), and doing it at his current level. It's just that simple. It's the same as DCS for beginner fighter pilots. Not a big deal at all.

The way that the AI are currently set up, I know advanced people who have a lot of trouble shooting them down. I can shoot some better than others depending on the plane. Adjusting the skill level of the AI only changes the distance at which he detects you. It does nothing to it's damage model, or it's aggressiveness. The AI are just a sad fact of life in DCS and I don't think that ED can do much about their crazy ways. In other sims that I have, the AI aircraft tend to eat a lot of memory and slow your game down quite a bit. DCS is no different. It is what it is and I understand the problem.

The other side of this is that a lot of the guys that I have faced down on servers were not really very skilled fighters either. So there aren't as many ace pilots running around on the internet as most would think.

Too bad the thread took a rabbit trail; instead of staying on topic regarding the current issues with the AI. ED is more than aware of this issue as it has been beat to death for years. As to MP v SP, it is a matter of preference and whatever arena one chooses, the "opposition" should not have unrealistic capabilities. If they do in single player, it detracts from the immersion as the OP said. If one chooses to join a MP session and all the other pilots are hours and hours of experience ahead of the newbie, that newbie will probably NOT be back. One may join an MP session to get their feet wet, but they should also be able to learn much of their skill training in Single player IF the AI was more realistic.