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Spitfire Start-up


NineLine

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But isn't the spring simply for the 'over centre' action so they hold open and hold closed, they aren't meant to be permanently sprung shut.

 

~2:29

 

 

The fun of this planes is simulate the thing like they are, but some people want to just a way to press single button in their HOTAS...

 

For cockpit builders implement a hidden switch or reed switch under cover for press button to sent command for game flip the covers is simple, and is part of the FUN of make and operate a cockpit. ;)

 

1. Press to open cover.

2. Press and hold to operate switch.

3. On release, release switch and close cover.

 

Casual players can use TARGET/Autohotkey and similar to set a macro to do this with just a single joystick button press.

To not say about "Win+Home", but ask for simplified the game commands game will hurt the diversion of others. :)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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The fun of this planes is simulate the thing like they are, but some people want to just a way to press single button in their HOTAS...

 

For cockpit builders implement a hidden switch or reed switch under cover for press button to sent command for game flip the covers is simple, and is part of the FUN of make and operate a cockpit.

 

Well Sokol1, I have the greatest respect for you expertise, but I can't understand how you can say that implementing a hidden switch, to simulate a purely mechanical cover, is 'simulating like they are'. Because in the real cockpit this is just a mechanical, spring loaded, cover. And having to hide a switch to tell the sim that the cover is open, is overly complicated.

I do see the point of simulating the process of opening the cover and then pressing the button, but if you want to use actual buttons to do this, instead of klicking the virtual cockpit, it becomes unnecessary complicated, and will use an extra direct input signal.

 

It should be possible to implement multiple commands for this.

 

BTN 1 open cover

BTN 2 press switch

BTN 1 close cover

 

And

 

BTN 1 open cover, press switch, close cover.

 

This does not take away anything from the realism of the module. It just makes it easier to simulate it realistically, in a physical cockpit.


Edited by Goblin
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Well Sokol1, I have the greatest respect for you expertise, but I can't understand how you can say that implementing a hidden switch, to simulate a purely mechanical cover, is 'simulating like they are'.

 

This example can explain this better than my "expertise". :lol:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2900016&postcount=65

 

Ka-50 pit builders too do this.

 

I am not cockpit nor panel builder, I an just arguing against simplify games commands to please "CH Throttle" (only press buttons) owners, because this people can simplify commands done macros with HOTAS keymapper software, editing LUA files (is fun), I did this with Mig-21 Chute cover, I need that chute fast to save my landings. :megalol:

 

But the guy done a Spit cockpit can't add commands if they don't came be default, I am defending that this guy had the option to make their covers flip the game covers (like the above Mirage example), their fun is this.

 

This is as 60$ module, should give all options, for all kind of players.

 

BTW - P-51 require click over start button cover for flip then up - don't remember if are option for button/keys - why Spit need be simplified? :D

 

EDIT - Yes P-51 have key option, for default is RShift+Home = Starter Switch Cover.

For example I can modify this nice DIY throttle and make one of this cover on right side flip the cover in game.

 

But their owner can edit LUA or set a macro and just press the switch under the cover for start P-51 engine - in game the cover and start button will be pressed together. ;)

 

"Greek and Trojans" happy. ;)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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There are merits to both viewpoints here, so the perfect solution would be to make both options possible. That's what the key mapping facility is for and as long as the option for either approach is covered, then everyone gets precisely what they want. Win - win.

 

+ 1000 :thumbup:

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Sure, Sokol1.

There are workarounds.

 

I don't understand the need for electrical signals to lift a cover, when this is machanical in its nature. :)

 

But yeah, I could just glue a small magnet to the lid of the cover on my throttle, and use a reed switch on the inside of the case. But, that just seems so unnecessary

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isn't it a mute point as one can map it to what ever they want?

 

The point is that you have to map a button to lift the cover AND map a button to press the switch. It's not possible to map a button to lift the cover and then press the switch.

You effectively need two buttons to press one switch.

This is the case for most modules, anyway.

And yes, there are workarounds.

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Use the mouse to click open/close the covers and assign keyboard buttons to the start and boost, it couldn't be simpler.

 

 

Sure, Sokol1.

There are workarounds.

 

I don't understand the need for electrical signals to lift a cover, when this is machanical in its nature. :)

 

 

how is the computer supposed to know you have opened your sim pit mechanical cover without an electrical signal to tell it so?

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how is the computer supposed to know you have opened your sim pit mechanical cover without an electrical signal to tell it so?

 

That's my point! :)

 

Why does the computer need to know the cover is open?

It's not like the engine knows the cover is open, on the starter button of the real aircraft...

 

Opening and closing the cover is just a consequense of pressing the button.

 

It makes sense to do it in the virtual cockpit, but when you use an external controller it becomes complicated.

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I don't understand your point. in the real aircraft the covers must be manually opened to gain access to the buttons, this is being simulated in the software, in order to physically control that function in a sim-pit there must be an electronic switch to tell the computer the cover has been opened and that function must be assignable in the software.

 

without opening the cover there is no pressing the button so the opening and closing is not a consequence at all but a necessity.

 

Not sure I'd be wasting assignments on a HOTAS controller for mundane functions like start buttons anyway, you are sat on the ground with all the time in the world to open and close covers and clickable pits spare you from the problem of assigning functions anyway.


Edited by bongodriver
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I don't understand the need for electrical signals to lift a cover, when this is machanical in its nature.

 

how is the computer supposed to know you have opened your sim pit mechanical cover without an electrical signal to tell it so?

 

That's my point! :)

Why does the computer need to know the cover is open?

It's not like the engine knows the cover is open, on the starter button of the real aircraft...

 

Opening and closing the cover is just a consequense of pressing the button.

 

It makes sense to do it in the virtual cockpit, but when you use an external controller it becomes complicated.

 

Well, you guys really don't understand my point of view - what is not novelty. :D

 

First, I am not asking for something new that will difficult the life of "CH Throttle" owners - just asking Spit Mk.IX the same options for commands in DCS P-51, for example.

 

Think, from pit builder perspective (I am not, but are "advocating" in their cause :) ), what is more "realistic":

 

Mouse click over the virtual cover for flip the up, or just press start switch in their pit and look the cover magically flip up and down in game?

 

Or:

 

Move the real cover up in his sim pit over - remember that I modified this cover to became a... switch ;) - this action will send a electrical signal computer, Windows will press "RShift+Home" (in P-51 this key combo will flip over the cover in game cockpit) and the cover open in game, then press the switch under the cover, and after close their pit cover and game do the same.

 

Again, this result like click with mouse, or press keys or joy buttons in DCS P-51, just the sim pit guy did in a cool way. :D

 

What this guy did in their sim pit is indeed a mechanical action - like the real pilot Spit do - the "cover switch MOD" is for deal with computer games specifies.

 

"Opening and closing the cover is just a consequense of pressing the button."

 

No, open the cover is a pre-requisite for press the start button, unless you want a "game" approach - what can be achieved with macros. ;)

 

Again, no new "difficult" is need be invented, just follow DCS P-51 standard. :thumbup:


Edited by Sokol1_br
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how is the computer supposed to know you have opened your sim pit mechanical cover without an electrical signal to tell it so?

 

Short answer:

 

Because I (as hypothetical ;) ) sim pit builder, modify the "mechanical cover" in my sim pit to work like a ordinary switch, who will send electrical signal for computer so the game recognizes that "RCtrl+Home" (or whatever shortcut) has been pressed and move the 3D cockpit cover up, unlocking press the start switch.

 

This is called... "simulation" (yes, sound silly). :D

 

BTW - That "scared CH Throttle" owner just need press a button in their throttle.

 

This action will send a macro (e.g. RCTRL+HOME, RShift HOME, INSERT, PageUp, RCTRL+HOME, RShift HOME), the game flip over the covers over start and coil buttons, start the engine and flip down the covers when the button is released. ;)

 

This is called... well... "play the game fast", after all in the end what matter is "guns, guns", and this is just a.. game. :P

 

And this conversation became what is called (there) "Tertulia flácida para acalentar bovinos". :lol:


Edited by Sokol1_br
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  • 6 years later...

I'm not sure if this is related to the engine temp redo or not, but I seem to be having trouble getting my Spitfire to heat up to 60 degrees rad temp while still on the ground.

I can do it, if I trim my nose fully upward and rev up to 0 boost and 2000 + rpm and leave it there for quite some time, but I don't believe this is the way it should be done. Regardless of the outside temperature the needle seems to stick around the 50 degree mark until I give up and just take off (after minutes of waiting). Am I just impatient? Or is there something I'm missing?

Also: I hear Spitfires irl tend to heat up too much if they stay on the ground too long, because of lack of airflow through the radiator (without the plane moving). As in, sometimes they need to take-off before it's too late and the engine overheats. This contrasts with my experience in DCS. Any thoughts on this?

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How are you warming up before you get bored and set 2000rpm? Starting at inch-cracked for ~800rpm until oil pressure drops below 120psi, then opening up to 1200rpm gives me the right Ts and Ps after 5 minutes or so. Don't forget the power checks (throttle up to 0lbs boost, exercise the prop through its range twice, check mag drop, 30s with supercharger test button pushed) - normally after completing all of that I'm at 40C oil temp and good to go.

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It takes me about 5 minutes before I get bored I think. It's not truly a question of being bored actually, it's more my brain reacting to the needle sticking, going: is this working the way it should? Is something wrong? Am I forgetting something? I'm very quick in getting to the point my engine is running but I'm having trouble being on time in the campaign missions of Beware beware. I know there's a space bar signal to give before your fellows take off, but the clock keeps running. Also it's a bit of curiosity into what's changed with the engine temp update ED did. It seems before undercooling was a problem during the missions of the B B campaign. I'm still having this problem, which I solve by slip/sliding and going full RPM for a bit as per the tip of the campaign maker. 

That power check amounts to about the time I was revving, so it kinda makes sense that you're good to go after that. I did the RPM checks but never the magnetos. Will do so next time. Thanks! 

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