How to Takeoff in the Dora

You are not alone. About 30 attemps so far and none of them were successfull. For me it seems to be extremly difficult to translate from "brake steering" to "rudder steering" and to not forget to get the stick centered AT THE RIGHT TIME. This bird just won't behave as I expect and then I'm overdoing inputs way to much. Well... that my conclusion at the moment.

 

The 0% rudder curvation may do the trick for me. I will test this today.

 

Most of the time it seems that just after centering the stick the Dora rolls to the left (causing my left wing to crash). Is this observaton correct or just bad luck/incompetence?

Make sure that when you pull back on the stick, it doesn't have a left or right tendency (a very subtle one can tip a wing either way and there goes a fireball :D)

You are not alone. About 30 attemps so far and none of them were successfull. For me it seems to be extremly difficult to translate from "brake steering" to "rudder steering" and to not forget to get the stick centered AT THE RIGHT TIME. This bird just won't behave as I expect and then I'm overdoing inputs way to much. Well... that my conclusion at the moment.

 

The 0% rudder curvation may do the trick for me. I will test this today.

 

Most of the time it seems that just after centering the stick the Dora rolls to the left (causing my left wing to crash). Is this observaton correct or just bad luck/incompetence?

Perhaps you give the manufacturer's take off technique a try, described in one of my earlier posts? Keep stick neutral until liftoff.

MAC

I pull back on stick only while the engine is spooling up to Startleistung, after app. 15m of roll distance I go neutral and compensate yaw with brake (only up to 50 km/h) then with rudder. Anticipate dipping left wing, correct with right roll, let her lift off and be sure she doesn´t jump into the air while bleeding all the energy resulting in a stall and crash. Just push the stick a bit as soon as she wants to fly. Let her gently develop small (2-5 m/s on VSI) vertical speed and good airspeed, gear, flaps, job done: airborne.

Thats how I managed to start her from the beginning. Only issues I had was stalling after steep climb (>10 m/s on VSI) directly after lift-off.

If you center the stick, you have left roll due to the torque of the engine.

Therefore add a little right roll input to compensate.

I already thought this. But trying to compensate always end with some kind of desaster. The problem is, that you don't know how much compensation is needed when you a new to the Fw 190. And there are other compensations, too. All have to be applied at the right time with the right amount. Very difficult...

Perhaps you give the manufacturer's take off technique a try, described in one of my earlier posts? Keep stick neutral until liftoff.

 

MAC

Just tried: Impossible in my opinion. The Dora just wont stay in line with the runway and its just not possible for me to compensate with brakes. This way I will crash in less than 2 seconds...

EDIT: My first successfull attempt. :pilotfly: Well successfull? Yes. She was flying. Pretty? No, ugly as hell. My nose was pointing about 30 degrees off the center line off the runway but I just pulled the stick a bit (while I was fighting roll and yaw at the same time) and then she was flying. It's hard to believe an aircraft can yaw THIS much and still take off. :huh:

Keeping the stick neutral until takeoff won't do the trick for me. Just gently (but not to gently) get it to center after starting, not giving full power at start but increase power quickly. A 0% or very shallow rudder curve seems to help. Its much easier to keep the bird on the runway that way.

Just tried: Impossible in my opinion. The Dora just wont stay in line with the runway and its just not possible for me to compensate with brakes. This way I will crash in less than 2 seconds...

Nothing is impossible.

1 - Lock your tail-wheel.

2 - Flight-stick in the centre (neutral).

3 - 100% full throttle.

4 - Dance the rudder, especially right-rudder, to keep her straight. Leave the brakes alone.

5 - Compensate for aileron movement.

Take-Off in 450 metres or thereabouts.

Here's a vid showing take-off and cockpit view. I have not flown the Butcher in more than a week or so, so I'm a wee bit wobbly but that's besides the point: Point is you leave the brakes alone, keep flight-stick neutral while compensating for the aileron and you're good to go at full throttle.

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Nothing is impossible.

 

1 - Lock your tail-wheel.

 

2 - Flight-stick in the centre (neutral).

 

...

Now I am confused. Afaik the tail wheel is locked only if and as long as the stick is in your lap. So a locked tail wheel AND a centered stick is impossible in the Dora.

Or did I get something fundamental totally wrong? :cry:

I believe it is only locked when the stick is held back, returning to neutral then unlocks it. Although it is mentioned to push forward to unlock.

Just tried: Impossible in my opinion. The Dora just wont stay in line with the runway and its just not possible for me to compensate with brakes. This way I will crash in less than 2 seconds...

 

EDIT: My first successfull attempt. :pilotfly: Well successfull? Yes. She was flying. Pretty? No, ugly as hell. My nose was pointing about 30 degrees off the center line off the runway but I just pulled the stick a bit (while I was fighting roll and yaw at the same time) and then she was flying. It's hard to believe an aircraft can yaw THIS much and still take off. :huh:

 

Keeping the stick neutral until takeoff won't do the trick for me. Just gently (but not to gently) get it to center after starting, not giving full power at start but increase power quickly. A 0% or very shallow rudder curve seems to help. Its much easier to keep the bird on the runway that way.

Could it be that you have very low frame rates? Was the case with me, very difficult to take off until I tuned my settings way down to achieve better ones. Since then, taking off no problem.

MAC

Now I am confused. Afaik the tail wheel is locked only if and as long as the stick is in your lap. So a locked tail wheel AND a centered stick is impossible in the Dora.

 

Or did I get something fundamental totally wrong? :cry:

According to Fw 190 A pilot's notes, to unlock the tail wheel it is necessary to push the stick forward of its neutral position for approximately 3cm. It is highly likely this wasn't changed for Dora.

I found that locking the tail wheel is the more effective the more you pull back the stick. That surprised me, since I always thought the tail wheel is either locked or it isn't, it can't be more or less locked. But that's seems what is going on. Maybe it is because if you pull back the stick all the way you put more weight on the tail wheel, making it more effective at keeping the plane straight. On the other hand, if you pull back only slightly, the tail wheel is still locked, but there is little weight on the tail wheel, and it can easily skip around, making it possible for the plane to turn left and right even with a locked tail wheel.

Am I right? Or is there another reason for that?

Now I am confused. Afaik the tail wheel is locked only if and as long as the stick is in your lap. So a locked tail wheel AND a centered stick is impossible in the Dora.

 

Or did I get something fundamental totally wrong? :cry:

That's what I say: impossible. And unlocking the tail wheel to early will cause many problems... at least for me

Nothing is impossible.

 

1 - Lock your tail-wheel.

 

2 - Flight-stick in the centre (neutral).

 

3 - 100% full throttle.

 

4 - Dance the rudder, especially right-rudder, to keep her straight. Leave the brakes alone.

 

And that's impossible, too. if you do it so, your speed is way to low, to "dance the rudder".

Just tried: Impossible in my opinion. The Dora just wont stay in line with the runway and its just not possible for me to compensate with brakes. This way I will crash in less than 2 seconds...

 

EDIT: My first successfull attempt. :pilotfly: Well successfull? Yes. She was flying. Pretty? No, ugly as hell. My nose was pointing about 30 degrees off the center line off the runway but I just pulled the stick a bit (while I was fighting roll and yaw at the same time) and then she was flying. It's hard to believe an aircraft can yaw THIS much and still take off. :huh:

 

Keeping the stick neutral until takeoff won't do the trick for me. Just gently (but not to gently) get it to center after starting, not giving full power at start but increase power quickly. A 0% or very shallow rudder curve seems to help. Its much easier to keep the bird on the runway that way.

Maybe check for cross-controls in the axis setup menu? Seems every time I get an aircraft update, and controls are reset, the game mixes some saitek rudder pedals and T16000 controls, or they are inverted. Also make sure you're not using natural view or 'head movement with g forces' option, as those will make identifying aircraft attitude changes more difficult. With those view agitations you will be reacting like a mongoose, lol.

Could it be that you have very low frame rates? Was the case with me, very difficult to take off until I tuned my settings way down to achieve better ones. Since then, taking off no problem.

 

MAC

No. Frame rates are quite good.

And that's impossible, too. if you do it so, your speed is way to low, to "dance the rudder".

I post a video for you to have a look at me doing the exact thing I wrote down and you tell me it's impossible? :doh: :megalol:

Did you watch the video?

Look and Learn: It's all there. Do you want the track as well?

Or are you saying that it's impossible for you? If so then all you need is to practice and you'll get it right eventually.

There is certain elevator angle for unlocking the wheel and we set unlock point according this angle. THe point is about 1/4-1/5 aft from the center (see the red indicator).

Yes, that are my experiences from taxiing, too. At some point aft from the center the wheel seems to unlock.

There is no need for compulsory use of tailwheel lock as you start. Brakes on, throtle forward to 3250, and release brakes as the plane is going down or a moment before, right rudder - and you can see that the rudder is so effective that the plane follows your pedals.

This is not the way the tutorial and some other videos are describing it, but according to the rudder: it seems to work. Surprisingly even at low speeds.

After reviewing my first successful takeoff in a track replay it wasn't 30 degree of the center line (I just got the feel it was this high). Maybe I was 10 to 15 degrees off. More or less of some kind of panic reaction I raised the throttle up to full power and maybe this stabilized all and I got it up.

The suggestion with the brakes and full power and release the brakes when the plane starts to "going down" were giving me way more control over my direction - unfortunately the torque had thrown me to the left again in my last test. So no success at the end but way better handling on the runway. Quite manageable. Still not easy, but doable.

Without full power the rudder seems to be ineffective for the first 1 to 2 seconds and for me it's very hard to keep the plane straight just with the brakes this way. With a centered stick (and a unlocked tail wheel) I lose control after a fraction of a second.

I post a video for you to have a look at me doing the exact thing I wrote down and you tell me it's impossible? :doh: :megalol:

Yes. And I repeat: impossible. The video wont proof it, because we can't see if you are using your brakes.

If you do, you are NOT dancing the rudder but the brakes. And with an unlocked tail wheel I got a lot of problems this way. I have tried it three times just for testing. Two times the Dora wents to the right just a second after start with minimal effect on the rudder. One time it goes forward and wents right a few moments later at higher speed, so I could catch it but not really control it. I could have catched it with the brakes, but not with the rudder alone...

This wont happen with a locked tail wheel (i.e. the stick aft), but you suggest to UNLOCK ("neutral stick") it just at start.

I'm not quite sure if using the brakes as suggesting before will do really better. I have just tried it a few times so far.

And just to avoid misunderstanding: I don't complain for an easier takeoff. But all tutorials won't work for me. With full throttle I need to have luck to "survive" the first 2 seconds of takeoff. If the Dora keeps straight for this time, I can mange it to stay on the runway (and maybe takeoff). If things went wrong the first 2 seconds, I have never managed it to get any real control so far. Without full throttle at start, I need more than 2 seconds.

Maybe check for cross-controls in the axis setup menu? Seems every time I get an aircraft update, and controls are reset, the game mixes some saitek rudder pedals and T16000 controls, or they are inverted. Also make sure you're not using natural view or 'head movement with g forces' option, as those will make identifying aircraft attitude changes more difficult. With those view agitations you will be reacting like a mongoose, lol.

I knew this. But I erased all axis controls just before assigning it yesterday. I will cross check it, but I doubt I have done any mistakes.

"head movement with g forces"? Interesting. I will check this, too. No, its off.

Yes. And I repeat: impossible. The video wont proof it, because we can't see if you are using your brakes.

It's a shame Viper didn't post his video with the controls helper up (rctrl-enter?) as that would be proof.

However, he's not wrong in saying it's entirely doable without locking the wheel and then using rudder inputs.

The key really is going full throttle before releasing the brakes.

It's a shame Viper didn't post his video with the controls helper up (rctrl-enter?) as that would be proof.

 

However, he's not wrong in saying it's entirely doable without locking the wheel and then using rudder inputs.

 

The key really is going full throttle before releasing the brakes.

With full throttle the Dora noses over - way before 3000 rpm with the stick neutral and at about 3000 rpm with stick fully aft.

Taking Off the Dora is easier that everybody is saying...despite the fact that the "prop-wash" is not modeled.

My trick is to trim the elevator to the full nose-down position, ..it is only one degree or a degree and a half, the maximum allowed.

Then

- Center the tail wheel and lock it, with stick to your bellybutton,,

- Loose brakes,

- Half Throttle

- Run the half of the runway until the plane reaches about 100KM / h, and you get rudder control,

- Center the stick and throttle to 100% and fly it.

- And the aircraft go to airborne safely, and with full control.

- Do not forget to correct the trim to neutral position after takeoff.

In addition;

DCS Fw 190 D-9 Dora Flight Manual, page 91.

"The best takeoff procedure is to hold the tail down until sufficient speed for rudder control is attained and then to allow the tail to rise slowly"

This phrase implies that DCS knows that the Dora has no "prop-wash effect" and therefore has no rudder control until the aircraft reaches certain speed.

despite the fact that the "prop-wash" is not modeled.

What's wrong with you? You've been told many times already that it IS modelled, so quit trolling already fergadssakes!

EDIT: Just re-checked and I could turn a stationary Dora on the runway immediately with the rudder only (i.e. no tailwheel steering) by applying some power, so yeah, the propwash is DEFINITELY modelled.

With full throttle the Dora noses over - way before 3000 rpm with the stick neutral and at about 3000 rpm with stick fully aft.

Flagrum, you advance throttle to take off position but you don't hold your brakes until the engine has rev'd up to full take off power. You release brakes by feel just a moment before that, when the tail starts to lift (so much for no propwash effect, Otto...). You'll have full take off power just an instant after that.

MAC

Yes. And I repeat: impossible. The video wont proof it, because we can't see if you are using your brakes.

I'll ask again:

Have you watched the vid? Then again, I suppose I should ask if you are aware that differential braking/toe-brake usage animation is actually modelled in the Dora?

Guess what: It is!

Which is incidentally exactly why I posted the In-Cockpit view zoomed in so far: So you could get a good look at the Rudder Pedals to see rudder movement AND any indication of toe-brake usage. Had you done so, you would have noticed absence of toe-brake use.

In any event, I see now that spoon-feeding is necessary in this particular instance so here goes: A supplementary in-cockpit vid with controls-indicator as well as the track for you to learn from. Vid included in the case of track-replay problems.

Butcher takeoff.trk

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