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Is VID in VR Hopeless? Labels unavoidable?


Nealius

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Running an Odyssey+ with PD at 1.4, and doing WVR stuff VID on other aircraft is just absurd. Judging by my Spit's gunsight settings, anything beyond 400-500 yards is just a black stick. Zooming in causes tunnel vision and does more harm than good, and even zoom loses it's effectiveness beyond 800 yards or so. I end up going home with zero kills (or even hits) because I simply can't VID with VR's poor spotting distance. I was hoping to avoid labels because it looks kinda stupid in videos, but is there no other option?

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I use minimal labels ( they are kinda like small dots), so not so much in your face so to speak.

Don B

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How did you make them minimal? I have my settings to "dot" only and they're still massive chevrons in VR.

I think there is a mod around created by an actual pilot, check User files section.

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These I hacked together the other day. They are the smallest I have been able to make, using the DCS dot system, and they are substantially smaller than the original label file. A single unit wont be a light beacon in a dark space, you still have to look.

 

DOT Only: Starts as a dark pixel at around 16km, fades in, and blends to color pixel, which is at its fullest at 6km, and then fades out again from 1500 to 0km.

 

Abbreviated: Same as DOT, but no color.

 

Full: No color, appears at 12km and then fades out the closer you get.

 

Im pretty happy with that system, and works well for both VR and monitor (1080p). If you want it bigger, change the font size in line 60 with notepad++ :

font_properties = {"AnonymousPro-Regular.ttf", 5, 0, 0, 0}

 

Goes in your C:\Users\'name'\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View folder

Labels.lua

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Thanks.

 

I took a look at some of these and it seemed easy enough to tweak. I replaced the annoying chevron with an apostrophe, and lowered the font size to 10 which is still rather large on the Odyssey Plus, so I'm testing 5 next. I left friendlies as blue and enemies as gray, so they don't stand out as much but still allow IFF. Might change friendlies to black to make it even more low profile.

 

I noticed lines 205 and 206 are reversed: Enemy side is actually friendly side, and friendly side is actually enemy side.

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These I hacked together the other day. They are the smallest I have been able to make, using the DCS dot system, and they are substantially smaller than the original label file. A single unit wont be a light beacon in a dark space, you still have to look.

 

DOT Only: Starts as a dark pixel at around 16km, fades in, and blends to color pixel, which is at its fullest at 6km, and then fades out again from 1500 to 0km.

 

Abbreviated: Same as DOT, but no color.

 

Full: No color, appears at 12km and then fades out the closer you get.

 

Im pretty happy with that system, and works well for both VR and monitor (1080p). If you want it bigger, change the font size in line 60 with notepad++ :

font_properties = {"AnonymousPro-Regular.ttf", 5, 0, 0, 0}

 

Goes in your C:\Users\'name'\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View folder

 

If only this would see some official support on multiplayer servers.

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DCS would benefit from a labeling convention where far objects would begin as a dot and gradually increase in size to a full label the closet the object becomes to the viewer. It's a idea that was in SEIII (IIRC), but it's a safe bet that ED could do it with little fuss if they had the will to do it. I've been making this suggestion for a couple of years now.

 

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=246692

 

 

^ that may be the mod the OP wants ^

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I'd say the issue is mainly beyond SP, where you can use whatever mod you want. The issue tends to be lack of formal adoption by ED and then downstream server owners, that for whatever reasons don't like labels.

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I modified the labels lua once and results were interesting accidentally. The label doesn't show up when target is behind clouds or somewhat out of center field of view. It is slightly odd how it really works but I need(ed) to spend time to find target at ohjeen because labels could ne very slightly opaque if visible at all in most cases and really come visible in more natural manner only when required.

 

I do not know do I have that Lua anymore existing after updates etc that reverse all other modifications anyways.

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and then downstream server owners, that for whatever reasons don't like labels.

The problem with using custom labels online is that nobody would be able to agree on what to set them at.

“Off” is a setting everyone can agree on. Plus any labels wreck realism in the sim.

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Plus any labels wreck realism in the sim.

 

Mmm, cause real world pilots are owls with bionic eye implants and with incredible stamina. Can pull 9G all day long.

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Mmm, cause real world pilots are owls with bionic eye implants and with incredible stamina. Can pull 9G all day long.

There’s no level of icons or labels that’s realistic. Unless you’re simulating an F-35 magic helmet.

And it’s not necessarily realism that drives the popularity of “full real” servers. I think it’s just the simple fact that setting all the game aids “off” is the easiest setting for people to agree on. There aren’t enough flight sim players online to give everyone their choice of game settings. So it’s “full switch” or nothing.

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There’s no level of icons or labels that’s realistic. Unless you’re simulating an F-35 magic helmet.

And it’s not necessarily realism that drives the popularity of “full real” servers. I think it’s just the simple fact that setting all the game aids “off” is the easiest setting for people to agree on. There aren’t enough flight sim players online to give everyone their choice of game settings. So it’s “full switch” or nothing.

 

Yeah but that drives the divide of the online community of the I can't see shit VR, vs the ZOOM IN 4K magic vision crowd. I realize we are on the opposite side of that divide, but labels being an "equal" crutch for both doesn't sound like a bad compromise to me, especially if its only for air units. I realize you don't necessarily need labels with your bionic zoom monitor, but you won't be hurt by them either, or at least a better implementation of them, because as it is now I don't love the current system with the huge "look here" even in VR But a more "subtle system might make enough people happy until we get to that magic 70ppd retinal resolution VR headset. Personally I'd like to see some sort of smart scaling like other sims have, but according to ED thats not happening.

 

And really, the "full real" servers are hardly realistic in so many other ways its kinda laughable to point at labels as being a huge issue.


Edited by Harlikwin

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but labels being an "equal" crutch for both doesn't sound like a bad compromise to me, especially if its only for air units.

Then create a server running labels. But I think you’ll find it empty. I don’t ever see labels of any kind used online in these sims.

 

I realize you don't necessarily need labels with your bionic zoom monitor,

You know monitors don’t have a “bionic zoom”. The max zoom view on a monitor is maybe a bit above life sized on the typical 24”-27” screen most people use. VR gets 2x life size zoom view which is huge by comparison.


Edited by SharpeXB

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Then create a server running labels. But I think you’ll find it empty. I don’t ever see labels of any kind used online in these sims.

 

GAW uses air only labels as do a variety of the online PVP dogfight servers.

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you don't necessarily need labels with your bionic zoom monitor, but you won't be hurt by them either

Other than the giant “shoot me” tag hovering over my plane. No thanks... :music_whistling:

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GAW uses air only labels as do a variety of the online PVP dogfight servers.

And there’s maybe 5 or 8 players on those typically

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You know monitors don’t have a “bionic zoom”. The max zoom view on a monitor is maybe a bit above life sized on the typical 24”-27” screen most people use. VR gets 2x life size zoom view which is huge by comparison.

 

I don't think you get how VR zoom works. Monitor zoom is up to 10x on an already zoomed in/smaller FOV while VR is 2x and also somewhat disorienting to use as well. I've played plenty of DCS on a flat screen with TIR and VR so I do know the difference. Its vastly easier for me to "spot" units with 24" 1080p monitor and "zoom" on a flat screen than in VR with a Reverb (the current best of the best resolution wise). Its clear from your earlier posts elsewhere that you don't play in VR. There are mods that allow higher VR zoom levels (5-10x in the dead center), but of course not-allowed by integrity check.

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Other than the giant “shoot me” tag hovering over my plane. No thanks... :music_whistling:

 

But you are 100% good with it as long as the other guy has it, which is the current situation.

 

And, you kind of missed my points.

1) I don't like the current tags because they are giant.

2)Everybody gets that tag not just you.

 

And thats the point of the thread. How do we make labels that don't do that? I think there are ways of doing it. I.e. vanishing tags, and tiny/small tags at a distance that help level the playing field, between ultra high res 4k gear and lower res monitors and VR headsets that can be agreed upon.

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There’s no level of icons or labels that’s realistic. Unless you’re simulating an F-35 magic helmet.

And it’s not necessarily realism that drives the popularity of “full real” servers. I think it’s just the simple fact that setting all the game aids “off” is the easiest setting for people to agree on. There aren’t enough flight sim players online to give everyone their choice of game settings. So it’s “full switch” or nothing.

 

Yet a very frequent topic is, "I cant see anything, I cant spot the enemy. Fix it ED!". Then suggest the use of simple subtle labels and you get burned at the stake, cause that is not 'realistic'. But sitting carefree at my desk with a toy and shooting missiles on a monitor somehow is.

 

The realism card is getting really old. And same/equal for all is too, cause we all use different equipment. Some sit with a small laptop and a 30$ joystick, others a complete cockpit with 3 projectors, and recently, various degree of visual VR quality too (not to mention the hardware behind it, being able to hold it at minimum 45 fps constant with decent graphics settings (shadows on helps spotting and MSAA too), or barely able to run 30 fps alone over water with lowest possible settings).

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

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And thats the point of the thread. How do we make labels that don't do that? I think there are ways of doing it. I.e. vanishing tags, and tiny/small tags at a distance that help level the playing field, between ultra high res 4k gear and lower res monitors and VR headsets that can be agreed upon.

Can’t the labels already be modded? So just set up a server running modded labels

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I don't think you get how VR zoom works. Monitor zoom is up to 10x on an already zoomed in/smaller FOV while VR is 2x and also somewhat disorienting to use as well. I've played plenty of DCS on a flat screen with TIR and VR so I do know the difference. Its vastly easier for me to "spot" units with 24" 1080p monitor and "zoom" on a flat screen than in VR with a Reverb (the current best of the best resolution wise). Its clear from your earlier posts elsewhere that you don't play in VR. There are mods that allow higher VR zoom levels (5-10x in the dead center), but of course not-allowed by integrity check.

 

Yeah, VR Zoom currently is at a big disadvantage to monitor zoom.

Obviously monitor zoom is more realistic to how it truly was...

:D

Don B

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