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Modified Logitech 3D Pro, no centre detent.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Well one more issue fixed!

 

Leo Bodnar in da house.

 

Specifically the BU0836X model. :D

 

What does this mean well apart from some muscle memory retraining it means I get rid of the silly sticky "magnetic action" on the cyclic. The Logitech and many others it seems program an electrical dead spot into the controllers so the output for the X and Y has this dead spot in it's range yep both roll and pitch!

 

Kinda useful for spring loaded and centered joystick but a major PIA for use as a cyclic ESPECIALLY in the Gazelle.

 

For the time being for various technical reasons I still need the logitech PCB for the collective,.. pffft. :pilotfly:


Edited by FragBum
<model nr>

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I'm going to keep following this thread, until you have the Ironman suit ready for release.

 

:D

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Interesting. Solved my helo woes with a MSFFB2 off Ebay. But I only fly the Ka-50 so far. I will say when holding the trim button in the ka-50, the stick goes completely limp with zero resistance and I was initially pretty amazed at how easy it was to control this way. I was using an unmodified Extreme 3d Pro prior to that. From what I can tell, the completely limp stick is more in line with an actual cyclic than a center spring.

 

 

In the video above that cyclic looks like it's plenty loose and just sits where the pilot holds it without fighting him at all. I'm not sure if that varies between choppers. I mean.. when not holding the trim button there are strong spring sensations holding it to wherever I've trimmed which is accurate afaik.

 

I guess I'm saying I'm not surprised that removing your center detent made helo flying easier.

 

Exactly! :D

 

The lightness of the cyclic and yes no center blip to overcome, at least in an R44, I wasn't ready for that the first time,.. :D

 

The only part with any force feedback was when you went through the start up procedure and turned the hydrolics off and exercised the cyclic, you could feel "it" the machine push back against your input.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 4 months later...

Well it's been a while and I've been a bit slack at Frag Labs however I'm moving forward with the pedals and hopefully will be able to mock up a prototype soon.

 

 

Basic concept

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=195760&stc=1&d=1539297258

 

Interesting TIGing Duragal that zinc migrates quickly,..

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=195761&stc=1&d=1539297258

 

Just gotta order the dampers to provide some resistance,.. :pilotfly:

WIP_Pedals01.jpg.3c0e2005d6f229043e2afdb3f99565a6.jpg

WIP_Pedals02.thumb.jpg.bdcb01365422e939eb143d16ac7c6f02.jpg


Edited by FragBum
<Pictures link broke>

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 4 months later...

Alright here at Frag labs I got some time to make the prototype torque pedals

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=203946&stc=1&d=1549412625

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=203947&stc=1&d=1549412628

 

Next fitting damper and UGN3503 then work out how to compact the design for my sim pit. :)

IMG20190205161943_DxOsm.jpg.be61139821220fee9572b5492f846c4f.jpg

IMG20190205162002_DxOsm.jpg.d3dfb5d495868f869f28662dcef5afd2.jpg

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh I say well out with the combat pro pedals and in with the Mk1's connected to the Leo Bodnar a few tweaks in settings as the output voltage is .8ish to 4.3ish volts from the sensor and voila!

 

Compared to the combat pros these are as smooth as silk no play in them at all, I still need to add the damper(s) But more testing, mmm which helicopter next,.... :pilotfly:

  • Like 1

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Just in case anyone is interested, added the damper and a few adjustments now working great.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=204997&stc=1&d=1550967697

 

Damper installed this gives the pedals a very nice feel and also allows me to take my feet off as they stay right where they a left.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=204998&stc=1&d=1550967697

 

Here is the pickup as the output is between .8ish and 4.3ish volts I used the DCS "Axis Tune" to get full input from the sensor.

 

Next sort out the cyclic. :pilotfly:

Pedals_Mk1_1of3c.thumb.jpg.a15033026b814b2c8a393eaa7f95ea84.jpg

Pedals_Mk1_2of3C.thumb.jpg.1b2abe335e41fa3ab97cd1b6f1de9b77.jpg

  • Like 1

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
Well between work and stuff I've been busy at Frag labs :P

 

The ole 3D Pro meck got some shims fitted to remove the slop and play in the gimble Ummm cyclic feels smooth as silk now. :D

 

Also had to make L brackets with 2 screw mounting for the dampers as the single screw version was prone to loosen but the new brackets work great and so far have not loosened.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=176077&stc=1&d=1515814564[

 

And viewed from the front here.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=176078&stc=1&d=1515814564

 

 

I am however working on a DYI cyclic and here is the prototype, reckon I'd get 10's of thousands of virtual flying hours out of these bearings although I think I can scale down the mechanism to maybe about half the size.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=176079&stc=1&d=1515814564

 

 

Next torque pedals and a proper V Sim Pit. :pilotfly:

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

:D :thumbup:

 

Beautiful man. ;)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 8 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Well necessity is the motivator if invention, so the collective pot got replaced last year because it was spotty, they don't seem to last long! Now maybe I am becoming more fussy in my old age but damn it, it got spotty again cheap potentiometers.

 

So the collective got an upgrade and now sports a HAL effect device, took the helli s out and fine tuned the collective and wow it's a keeper folks.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=227098&stc=1&d=1581433001

 

The trick with the double magnets is I get about 55deg of rotation and a single gives about 40deg for FSD of output.

HAL_Effect_Device.thumb.JPG.cee90e82a57661b2d7675c8d701819d1.JPG

  • Like 1

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hey buddy......I am very interested in the use of HAL sensor rather than the use of pots for my collective build. I was going to tear out the 650K pot on my Siatek throttle and use lego gears on the axis pin to give me more sensitivity as in turning a 60' arc into 300' movement on the pot (gear ratio 5:1)

 

Where did you get the HAL board/sensor from and do you just wire it in place of where the pot was on your Joystick board or did you need a whole new shazamizzle......

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay what I found is with 2 magnets I got increased angle of rotation over that of 1 magnet. They are stacked n-s:n-s just watch your fingers they will snap together, I tend to bring the edges together and slide them together.

 

The pivot point is pretty much dead center over the HAL device which I bought from the Leo Bodner site, I also use the BU0836X 12-Bit Joystick Board for input as well there are many others out there but I can say this one works a treat.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=240630&stc=1&d=1592799209

 

The sensors are A1302's and yes they work just like a potentiometer as far as the controllers analogue input is concerned.

 

here

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_82&products_id=195

 

The sensor is mounted on some matrix board (I'd like to say Veroboard but.) the stuff I used is cheap and cheerful but available locally. This is mounted on a bracket fashioned from aluminium angle and allows slight wiggle room for setting the assembly invplace, AKA slightly larger holes and washers.

 

 

Now it is best to position the sensor as close as practical to the magnets keep in mind some clearance is required to allow the magnets to rotate with out touching the HAL sensor. What I have done was to align the magnets so they are vertical at the halfway point of travel for the collective, i.e. collective half way up this gives pretty much the maximum amount of travel.

 

The limitations and there are a couple.

 

Because the output from the HAL device can only vary between about 0.7V to 4.3V actually a little less to keep everything linear and smooth. you will need to adjust the curve in axis tune to get full scale input. This also allows you to shift the start and end points so you have full range input.

 

here is how the collective input is set up.

attachment.php?attachmentid=240629&stc=1&d=1592799209

 

Whilst I could get about 55 degress of rotation with 2 magnets in practise it's more like about 50 degrees usable or so still more than enough for the collective I have the design process of course will dictate how much angle of rotation and how much travel you end up with and something you might want to consider if your wanting to model a specific helicopter, I kinda went generic and that works fine for me.

 

As for the amount of angular rotation needed I have found that at least for the collective and pedals the 50-something degrees is more than enough the cyclic will likely end up with only 1 magnet and should provide more then enough throw.

 

As for a gear box you might find the backlash a tad annoying. :)

HAL_InputSettings_DxO.thumb.jpg.5ab09f7ace2daf6004da9c494fe15324.jpg

IMG20200622130130_DxO-1.jpg.a0d7ac026649cbf0d63d23951c80779a.jpg

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Thanks for your advice buddy.....I have pretty much copied your design and now have a hal sensor collective......so much easier to control and much more like flying IRL (90 hours on gazelle during BFT with 705NAS). For information I had a throttle on my joystick and simply rewired with potentiometer in the joystick body used to control the throttle to the hal sensor so no need to buy a bodnar board yet.

 

Next job add speed select lever and do a cyclic.......leo bodnar.....I need one of your boards.....

 

For those thinking this is was beyond your skills.....it isn't.

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Good to hear Gizmokev and yes it becomes much more immersive when the controls are more "real life" like.:thumbup:

 

Oh and 705NAS Awesome.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 1 year later...

This is a great thread guys. Thanks for sharing all this info. I have been looking at making a collective myself but didn't really know where to start. Can I ask @FragBum did the hall effect sensor work with the Leo bodnar board and if so, was it just a case of connecting the sensor to the pins on the board? I do have a couple of BBI32s lying around in anticipation of my F-14 cockpit build, but I'd love to have decent controls for flying the Huey and Apache when it's finally launched. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I use the hall effect devices for collective and anti-torque controls, you just need to scale them in the settings  to get full range, cyclic is next. I have the basic machinics just need to implement the sensors. So yes they work fine with Leo Bodnar, your range will be slightly reduced but you need to make allowances for this in your design and DCS settings.  

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Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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