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When are VR Users Gonna get there moneys worth?


huggy98

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I have bought combined arms but because I use VR, using tactical commander on multiplayer is totally useless. and as that was the only reason I bought it I feel like I have been conned. I can direct vehicles on the f10 map but that is all. when is this problem going to be sorted out? Until this is fixed there should be a warning on the description, explaining that it is unusable in VR. I'm no expert but it doesn't look like too difficult a problem to fix. so why hasn't it been fixed by now? so us VR users can get what we paid for? :mad:

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I'm no expert but it doesn't look like too difficult a problem to fix. so why hasn't it been fixed by now?

 

Probably because you're not an expert and don't know what you're talking about. Also, you must not have read the description very closely. It is not, nor will it ever be, a 3d "commander view" of the battlefield, ala the Total War series. Command and Conquer is over there --->

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Yea but sadly CA is almost useless in VR. I had fun to ambush with a mobile SAM but complicated in VR and cant change to 2D as most of the time I am hosting.

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The question is, when is the Combined Arms being developed what it should be? And when is the DCS World being developed for the ground troops in mind, so every air unit would benefit from it too?

 

Meaning things like, individual infantry soldier is not a "unit" but just a infantry soldier. You should be commanding a squads, platoons etc. So a infantry squad is a single symbol. A infantry platoon is a single symbol.

 

The same thing is for the vehicles, a MBT platoon should be 3-4 MBT under a single symbol. So you command the platoon to go somewhere, not individual MBT.

 

The F10 map is like general thing, you just say "go to X position, be there at time Y, prepare defensive line to North. Attack to town Z west from you, starts 05:45." But you are not commanding individual units in the whole attack. That should be behind 3D view like modern 3D RTS game!

 

Free camera, Fog of War based intelligence and communications. It doesn't help that one of your units see something if you are not exactly commanding that unit, until that unit manages to report the sighting forward. So add there a few seconds to get first signaling to radio guy, few seconds to get the radio call forward, few seconds to process that and get then that forward until you are directly on FOB or HQ.

 

That radio communication simulation would as well add worth to CAS pilots as they would get the direct line as should, if there is someone to talk. Every CAS pilot and anyways every pilot should be there to report every sighting. Have a correct radio frequency in multiplayer as otherwise no one else is going to get any intelligence. Spotting something would mean you are only adding some vague general location that can be about 1-2 km accuracy.

 

A fighter pilot wouldn't see directly anyone, unless their fighter has radar on and datalink sending the data to ground units etc. A GCI or SAM could spot and direct the QRF to interception, with the own realistic delays etc.

 

The 3D camera commanding that like example Eugen Wargame game series has, would open DCSWorld CA module to far more users. Get pilots to have more ground units and more fun as there would be ground units fighting against each others too instead just some scattered ones somewhere, that is like shooting fish in a bucket.

 

The CA is the module that should combine every other module, ground and air to one complex warfare. But it is not there.

 

Now when 2.5 gets released, we have hope that it gets better when ground units has limited capabilities to go through forests and need to use roads, towns etc are more important, bridges are critical etc etc. But F10 map doesn't cut it anymore, it needs to be 3D. And so that VR is possible way to play the game.

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Probably because you're not an expert and don't know what you're talking about. Also, you must not have read the description very closely. It is not, nor will it ever be, a 3d "commander view" of the battlefield, ala the Total War series. Command and Conquer is over there --->

no, i'm no expert. but, you don't seem like much of an expert either. the problem I see when using vr is only that in the first person view, when you move your head left your turret goes right etc. surly for the experts, this isn't a big problem to fix. what do you think mr expert?

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no, i'm no expert. but, you don't seem like much of an expert either. the problem I see when using vr is only that in the first person view, when you move your head left your turret goes right etc. surly for the experts, this isn't a big problem to fix. what do you think mr expert?

 

 

 

CA is supposed to get a rework eventually. VR did not exist when CA was made, so duh, nothing like that works properly. It's on the to-do list, sometime after the much higher priority major engine overhaul currently in process, part of which is... wait for it! Drum roll, please!

 

Improved VR integration.

 

As for my level of expertise with coding, and my familiarity with DCS timelines, it's good enough that I'm not surprised that an old module, which was written before the new VR craze, which largely is still cobbled together proof of concept material (did you know MOST developers have ignored VR until recently? Why? Because it only started becoming a stable technology you could reliably code around over the last year)

 

I know enough about it to know that a game has to be designed from the ground up with it in mind, that you can't simply copy paste code into an old game and poof it's VR ready. Or maybe you didn't notice how nobody is going back and VRifying old retro games?

 

By all means, ask for improved VR support. That is great! But spare us the faux indignation and 'it's so easy' nonsense. If it's so easy to do, go take a crash course in C++ and volunteer your services. I'm sure Eagle Dynamics could use a technological prodigy such as yourself.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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CA is supposed to get a rework eventually. VR did not exist when CA was made, so duh, nothing like that works properly. It's on the to-do list, sometime after the much higher priority major engine overhaul currently in process, part of which is... wait for it! Drum roll, please!

 

Improved VR integration.

 

As for my level of expertise with coding, and my familiarity with DCS timelines, it's good enough that I'm not surprised that an old module, which was written before the new VR craze, which largely is still cobbled together proof of concept material (did you know MOST developers have ignored VR until recently? Why? Because it only started becoming a stable technology you could reliably code around over the last year)

 

I know enough about it to know that a game has to be designed from the ground up with it in mind, that you can't simply copy paste code into an old game and poof it's VR ready. Or maybe you didn't notice how nobody is going back and VRifying old retro games?

 

By all means, ask for improved VR support. That is great! But spare us the faux indignation and 'it's so easy' nonsense. If it's so easy to do, go take a crash course in C++ and volunteer your services. I'm sure Eagle Dynamics could use a technological prodigy such as yourself.

Ok, so you know your stuff (I think) but the info would be so much more appreciated without the attitude. you really don't come across as a very nice person. Am I allowed to say a"%hole?

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All bs aside, though, a 3d commander view ala Eugen, etc, would be pretty backwards from the entire DCS philosophy of simulation as it is nothing whatsoever like anything used in-RL.

 

The interface could definitely be improved, but it should remain more or less inthe theme of the current map and icon stuff. That's much closer to what a real battlefield commander would be interpreting, supplemented by recon photos/video from surveillance units.

 

CA is kind of crap right now because it was a fairly half baked foray into the realm of C&C an an even more half bake foray into first person ground warfare. It mostly proves two concepts : C&C is very feasible but requires a lot of careful design, while the FPS aspect is just a bad idea (distances are too great, a single player in an aircraft can decimate an entire column in mimutes, etc, etc). That's why it's nearly given away at this point. It's not really worth more than a few dollars.

 

Not every concept is feasible as a full VR or even first person experience. For CA, the emphasis should be improving what works (command and control concepts) and not wasting resources on things it is poorly suited for (FPS combat and 3d engine support).

 

Imo, of course.

 

Edit

 

It should be noted there are rumored future plans for ground modules 'someday' but implementation of this stuff into the DCS environment is fraught with issues. If you ever played WT, you'd know how badly people take getting bombed by aircraft they can't defend against. Having a guy in $60 Abrams module being farmed repeatedly by other guy in an A-10 wouldn't be.... very popular lol

 

Which is the other issue. Those two things don't mesh well together. CA is a lot more complicated to work out than simply whipping the code monkey.


Edited by zhukov032186

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Relax and do not insult each other, #1 Rule !

 

One can ask anything, the more based on facts, knowledge and expertise the question is the better the answers will be.

 

A novice might ask things where enthusiasts will shake their beads and turn away.

 

Understanding the matter is a matter of dealing with it over a long period of time with the brain switched to overclock, midnight hours and family falling short. Not all are following this route. The resulting outcome are statements like the OT.

 

Still, as long as everybody stays calm, gaps in knowledge can be filled by this forum.

 

Just dknt title someone an asshole, regardless of how you disguise your expression. Thjs is what this forum is NOT about.

 

Help ! Dont insult or flame

 

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I'll say. Remember, experience is what you get right after you needed it. I imagine CA is on the lower end of use for DCS. So, unfortunately, it's probably going to take a lot longer for VR to be implemented correctly.

hsb

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I beg to differ. Player-controlled SAMs can become a real nuisance and a major pain in the butt online. I do mean directly-controlled, not just C&Ced into place. :)

 

It's also fun to drive around as a FAC and provide coordinates/lasing/ir marking for allied aircraft. Helps their SA tremendously.

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combined arms is what is going make dcs great.there is work going on on a players server that impliments it how it should be used. and i can tell u from playing on it that it is truly amazing. it turns dcs from a flight sim into full on Digital Combat Simulator! all out war, where team work has never been so important. you have the guys in their planes attacking and capping, helos spawning tanks, atillery, jtac, support trucks and strategically sending them on there missions. when you play this you will demand combined arms gets the love it deserves. because at the moment, i don't think ED know just how great this game is becoming. what is needed now is improvements to multiplayer, combined arms and for them to work with this particular person who created this amazing server,and you will have the best full on war simulator ever! imho the best game of all time. espcially in VR!

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  • 4 weeks later...

VR as a tech isn't new, the relatively common use of it in the home is what's new. It's simply a head mounted display and a mere step away from TrackIR which has been around since before CA, including 6DOF tracking. Yes, TIR is scaled, but the decoupling of camera and turret translation and rotation is something that has already been done. Technically the limit on translation and rotation with track IR is the hardware in camera FOV, line of sight to the LEDs and stationary displays. In fact many people playing games in VR that weren't designed for it are exploiting existing TIR functionality (BMS as an example).

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VR as a tech isn't new, the relatively common use of it in the home is what's new. It's simply a head mounted display and a mere step away from TrackIR which has been around since before CA, including 6DOF tracking. Yes, TIR is scaled, but the decoupling of camera and turret translation and rotation is something that has already been done. Technically the limit on translation and rotation with track IR is the hardware in camera FOV, line of sight to the LEDs and stationary displays. In fact many people playing games in VR that weren't designed for it are exploiting existing TIR functionality (BMS as an example).

 

 

"mere step away from TIR" couldn't be more wrong. I had the TIR 3 monitor setup. Today's VR is eons ahead of TIR. It's not even in the same ballpark. The 1-to-1 movement tricks your brain into being there. TiR does not. The only analogy I could think of is comparing a buggy to a Ferrari because they both use wheels to go from point a to point b.

 

So please fix the VR issues with CA.

hsb

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  • 2 months later...
VR as a tech isn't new, the relatively common use of it in the home is what's new. It's simply a head mounted display and a mere step away from TrackIR which has been around since before CA, including 6DOF tracking. Yes, TIR is scaled, but the decoupling of camera and turret translation and rotation is something that has already been done. Technically the limit on translation and rotation with track IR is the hardware in camera FOV, line of sight to the LEDs and stationary displays. In fact many people playing games in VR that weren't designed for it are exploiting existing TIR functionality (BMS as an example).

 

 

I don't know how well trackIR works, I never had it. I have an Oculus Rift. I can't believe the level of immersion. I'm sitting at a desk in my office chair. I'm clearly stationary and sitting upright. When I am high up and flip my plane to look down at the terrain, even though I'm sitting upright at a desk, it feels like I'm upside down in a fighter plane seat looking down on the terrain. I strain my neck muscles as I constantly look over my shoulder trying to track that missle that's coming at me. Many times I have to rotate the plane on one axis so I can turn my head and get a better view looking over my other shoulder. I'm fully looking back behind me in reality while this is happening. I have to do it very fast, it feels like I'm there. I actually feel anxiety and panic. It feels like I'm really dodging a missle when I lean forward and dive towards the ground hoping it's a radar missle that will lose track against the terrain. I don't know how TrackIR can give a close experience if your view is l imited what you can see in front of you on your monitors. When you look back over your shoulder, you would need to physically still be looking forward because your visuals come from those screens. VR is 1:1 head movement and that makes this so immersive.

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I have bought combined arms but because I use VR, using tactical commander on multiplayer is totally useless. and as that was the only reason I bought it I feel like I have been conned. I can direct vehicles on the f10 map but that is all. when is this problem going to be sorted out? Until this is fixed there should be a warning on the description, explaining that it is unusable in VR. I'm no expert but it doesn't look like too difficult a problem to fix. so why hasn't it been fixed by now? so us VR users can get what we paid for? :mad:

 

Try running it in BigScreen VR. It's amazing, just like being in an ops room with a massive tactical display.

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For those who don't understand. Using the F10 map in VR is fine. Looks like a huge curved screen you can click on. However, when you get into a vehicle, the view is stuck to the front of your face and you can't look around like you're used to. So controlling vechicles in VR is effectively impossible and broken. I'm assuming OP is talking about this. I'd be very unhappy if I bought it for $40 in this state.

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As lemoen said, the view in VR is not optimized.

When using a Stinger position for a JTAC and selecting the binoculars, you've got a black wall in front of you that does not stretch across the screen. Nor does it move back to the correct eyepoint, robbing you of the full magnification. This leaves you without the immersion or capability to perform the task.

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