Jump to content

[CHECKING] Propeller is unrealistic and bent prop discussion


Recommended Posts

DCS 2.5.6.50793 Open Beta - 11.06.2020

 

 

After latest update, to address "DM insensitivity" I took ground fire, lost 3 of four paddles (prop blade) was able to fly straight and level with no shaking or loss of power at 300+ IAS for several miles.

 

P.S. recreated later, with no prop, and significant damage. Able to fly straight and level with all power readings nominal. Air speed did not decrease, no shaking etc. Able to "fly" like this for several miles.

 

Attached pics

 

Added mission if anyone wants to try and recreate. Simple, just fly at enemy column and shoot targets. About 1 out of 5 times you will take damage like this, with missing prop, and be able to fly as if nothing is wrong. You will need WWII assets. Caucasus used, so map should work for everyone.

singleblad.thumb.JPG.83e6a6c5c97b5da371f7b066000d9720.JPG

singleblade.thumb.JPG.69443c13e262e54b41d6d3986bca50d4.JPG

Screen_200611_182044.thumb.png.41f1b592fed5d39eba111682019914a5.png

P47CaucasusStraf.miz


Edited by SmirkingGerbil
Added mission, cleaned up syntax. Added WWII assets condition

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

same here but no props :thumbup:

 

Thanks much! Was hoping it was reproducible and it wasn't just me.

 

I really love the new DM, enjoying watching the prop take damage, and all the cowling effects . . . but flying around with no prop, cowling, and the engine is purring like nothing is wrong was giving me serious "hmmmm, that doesn't seem right" moments!

 

To be fair, I have had that damage, and lose power, but just as many times, catastrophic damage as in your pic, and can cruise along maintain all readings nominal and have a nice flight.

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I imagine this bug report won't go very far as, IIRC, they (ED) are in a transition period from old damage modeling to the new system so old model issues will likely not be a priority. Though I imagine if similar happens when the new system is released it will be quite the priority. But similar issues are prevalent in many aircraft currently where the visual damage does not correlate with the structural damage.

 

Edit- That's not to say there won't be some adjustment as this is quite a severe example, but its been a reoccurring issue for a few years with the other WW2 aircraft. So it will likely be fixed with NDM.

 

-My opinion not affiliated to ED in anyway shape or form.


Edited by ShadowFrost
Link to comment
Share on other sites

. . . .

 

Edit- That's not to say there won't be some adjustment as this is quite a severe example, but its been a reoccurring issue for a few years with the other WW2 aircraft. So it will likely be fixed with NDM.

 

-My opinion not affiliated to ED in anyway shape or form.

 

Thanks for the input ShadowFrost. I fly the Anton regularly, the P-51 and the Spit every now and again. The damage with the P-47 (to me) is quite the outlier, but you are right with how it will be handled.

 

Just a bit of an adjustment to lose your entire cowling, and prop, then wait to figure out if you REALLY lost your cowling and your prop, or if it is still there and functioning, but magically transparent. :lol::lol:

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:thumbup:

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Figured I will add this to the visual damage bug. This is me after I crashed landed. Apparently when my airplane broke apart it created two tail sections of the plane and still left the original tail section on the plane. Apparently my aircraft was carrying extra parts I didn't know about inside.

Screen_200627_144340.thumb.png.9d2f22f5aa2e1492d8531435bbfa650d.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can confirm both the above bugs.

System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

[CHECKING] Propellor is unrealistic

 

As with most of the new prop modules the propellor visual is completely unrealistic.

 

It appears that you have gone for a look as if we are watching it through a video camera and not as if we are in the aircraft. The way the prop appears to change direction, the darkness of it when it is running.

 

As I am sure you know, in real life you cannot see the propellor very much at all once the engine is running. All this does is waste gpu power and make the aircraft look odd.

Plus in VR the prop has all sorts of issues.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure how much experience you have around actual recip engines but they definitely are visible; whether up close or opposite ends of a runway, both the warning tips and the blades themselves can be easily seen as is replicated in the sim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I am a pilot so I'd say I know what a prop looks like.

I never said they are invisible, but what I am saying is they are not moddled correct in the sim. They are modelled as if you are watching a video playback with a shutter speed, you can see this as the rpm increases and it looks like the prop changes direction. Something that the human eye doesn't see.

When looking through a propellor you can see that is is indeed there, but it isn't as visible in dcs.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You get the same with wheels and tank tracks.

 

 

The strobe effect!

..

I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy..





..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's horribly distracting in vr

 

There are VR friendly textures out there. Of course, they fail integrity check but that doesn't matter SP and some MP servers turn off IC for this reason.

 

My server, 475th Fighter Group "Satan's Angels", is running a WWII mission where you can fly with the VR friendly textures.

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are VR friendly textures out there. Of course, they fail integrity check but that doesn't matter SP and some MP servers turn off IC for this reason.

 

My server, 475th Fighter Group "Satan's Angels", is running a WWII mission where you can fly with the VR friendly textures.

 

Ah brilliant, thank you for the information!

 

Whilst the prop effect is cool from a cinematic perspective, it is no way near any form of reality. Going to try this mod. Devs - please look at implementing a more realistic prop into every aircraft.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As with most of the new prop modules the propellor visual is completely unrealistic.

 

It appears that you have gone for a look as if we are watching it through a video camera and not as if we are in the aircraft. The way the prop appears to change direction, the darkness of it when it is running.

 

As I am sure you know, in real life you cannot see the propellor very much at all once the engine is running. All this does is waste gpu power and make the aircraft look odd.

Plus in VR the prop has all sorts of issues.

 

It is completely realistic to see propellers and see them as well alter speed and as well change their direction in some cases.

 

It is known as "wagon wheel effect" and it is about you as much the rotation object and it's RPM.

 

It is just a misbelief that it is only with a cameras, as with cameras there comes rolling shutter effect that is related only to shutter mechanisms in camera.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Truly continuous illumination

The first to observe the wagon-wheel effect under truly continuous illumination (such as from the sun) was Schouten (1967[7]). He distinguished three forms of subjective stroboscopy which he called alpha, beta, and gamma: Alpha stroboscopy occurs at 8–12 cycles per second; the wheel appears to become stationary, although "some sectors [spokes] look as though they are performing a hurdle race over the standing ones" (p. 48). Beta stroboscopy occurs at 30–35 cycles per second: "The distinctness of the pattern has all but disappeared. At times a definite counterrotation is seen of a grayish striped pattern" (pp. 48–49). Gamma stroboscopy occurs at 40–100 cycles per second: "The disk appears almost uniform except that at all sector frequencies a standing grayish pattern is seen ... in a quivery sort of standstill" (pp. 49–50). Schouten interpreted beta stroboscopy, reversed rotation, as consistent with there being Reichardt detectors in the human visual system for encoding motion. Because the spoked wheel patterns he used (radial gratings) are regular, they can strongly stimulate detectors for the true rotation, but also weakly stimulate detectors for the reverse rotation.

 

There are two broad theories for the wagon-wheel effect under truly continuous illumination. The first is that human visual perception takes a series of still frames of the visual scene and that movement is perceived much like a movie. The second is Schouten's theory: that moving images are processed by visual detectors sensitive to the true motion and also by detectors sensitive to opposite motion from temporal aliasing. There is evidence for both theories, but the weight of evidence favours the latter.[/Quote]

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is completely realistic to see propellers and see them as well alter speed and as well change their direction in some cases.

 

It is known as "wagon wheel effect" and it is about you as much the rotation object and it's RPM.

 

It is just a misbelief that it is only with a cameras, as with cameras there comes rolling shutter effect that is related only to shutter mechanisms in camera.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Yes, that's correct. However the prop in dcs is far too dark and stands out more than in real life. It shouldn't obstruct viewing.

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First and foremost I wish they'd made up their minds about going either in realistic direction, or cinematic direction, 'cause now, ED prop modules are all over the place in this aspect.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is completely realistic to see propellers and see them as well alter speed and as well change their direction in some cases.

 

It is known as "wagon wheel effect" and it is about you as much the rotation object and it's RPM.

 

It is just a misbelief that it is only with a cameras, as with cameras there comes rolling shutter effect that is related only to shutter mechanisms in camera.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

You expect me to believe Wikipedia over my lyin' eyes?

 

I trust my 7000+ hours flying propeller driven aircraft more than Wikipedia. Except for some very specific circumstances, the prop disc looks like a nearly completely transparent disc when viewed with the human eye.

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You expect me to believe Wikipedia over my lyin' eyes?

 

I trust my 7000+ hours flying propeller driven aircraft more than Wikipedia. Except for some very specific circumstances, the prop disc looks like a nearly completely transparent disc when viewed with the human eye.

 

+1

Just spent 4 hours in a da42 this morning. Can confirm the prop was almost completely transparent.

 

We must have something wrong with our eyesight!

RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You expect me to believe Wikipedia over my lyin' eyes?

 

I trust my 7000+ hours flying propeller driven aircraft more than Wikipedia. Except for some very specific circumstances, the prop disc looks like a nearly completely transparent disc when viewed with the human eye.

 

You want us to trust you over Nick Grey who's baby the P-47 is? Who has real time with it?

 

How about other people with flying as well with other propper aircrafts that sees that exact same thing as in the DCS is? You vs many?

 

We can play this "Blame to" game all time along.... Nothing will change the fact that human eye is capable to see such effects and it is not "camera shutter speed and frame rate" thing.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...