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Bf 109 elevator trim


grafspee

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i found that trim in bf109 is not enought for level flight it alwayes wants to pitch up a little even with trim set all down do i miss something there ??

at neutral trim bf109 pull something like 4G

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Trim is for cruise only. 1-1-1.15 ata level flight.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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i want to clarify somethin neutral mean 0 on trim gage in bf109 right ???

so i tried that trim 0 1.05 ata it is not even remotly close to level flight i need to push stick a lot to maintain level flight when i centre stick bf pulls 3.5g at 400kph and loop is done quite fast i would say about 10s-15s

this is how look my controls during level flight with 1.05 ata

i think something is very wrong here then

and this tendency not change too much even at bigger ata the same at 1.1 1.2 1.3

only way to fly level is trim it all the way +2 and even then it has small tendency to pitch up

https://i.imgur.com/peIqhvS.jpg


Edited by grafspee

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or you ment the whole trim range is for cruise only at 1.1 but if it is what you ment thne i can cruise with 1.4 ata with trim all way down so not realy any change in pitch during faster/more power flight

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Trimmed level flight is possible only up to 1.1-1,15 ata (at the speed of level flight), i.e. cruise flight. For higher IAS stick input is necessary. "0" means 0 degrees of stab incidence and not more.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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hmm, so only thing we need is adjustable elevator trims in options for bf109 just like there are for rudder and ailerons

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at least some had

but if all of them?

hard to say what was "standard" in that war phase and situation, especially for 109 case...

(plane is the same on both photos)

309644121_K-4withtrim.jpg.812bc61df79d5da8d9e74cd94e6e0661.jpg

297699468_K-4.jpg.e92aab637f96724506070e145fd35165.jpg

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i think in game model has this ground adjustable elevator thins

 

btw how tha heck this bf landed in forest


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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i think in game model has this ground adjustable elevator thins

 

btw how tha heck this bf landed in forest

 

nope. we only got it for ailerons and rudder, but not for the elevator for some strange reason.

 

i think it doesnt make much sense that they refuse to give us elevator trim tabs. they were there in real life, and im of the opinion, that this should not only be here for the 109, but for all warbirds on all surfaces where the real life counterpart had them.

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nope. we only got it for ailerons and rudder, but not for the elevator for some strange reason.

 

i think it doesnt make much sense that they refuse to give us elevator trim tabs. they were there in real life, and im of the opinion, that this should not only be here for the 109, but for all warbirds on all surfaces where the real life counterpart had them.

 

Then why ED is denying them??

  • Like 1

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anyways i can live with no elevator trim set in options

i just curious what's the reason behind this aragment of trim in bf109 k-4 that you can trim level flight only up to 1.1 and you have like enormous range of trim to trim nose up i can immagine that during landing you need a little trip up but what about rest of the range ?? is it some kind safty that pilot can control elevators after some damage. or is it trim range needed when carrying aditional guns pods and bombs ??

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  • 3 weeks later...
i dont know how about you but this one looks like ground adjustable trim tab for me

https://i.imgur.com/KQjNB9D.jpg

 

You are absolutely correct about it being a GROUND adjustable trim tab. The elevator, ailerons, and rudder have trim tabs that are adjustable by the ground crew only. They are NOT adjustable while in flight. The only adjustment you can make in flight is to the incidence angle of the horizontal stabilizer. The elevators are attached to the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizer. You can use the wheel in the left side of the cockpit to adjust the horizontal stabilizer angle of incidence to compensate for higher or lower takeoff weight of the airplane. It is NOT a trim tab like those in the P-51 or the Spitfire.

 

The Misc tab in the options menu provides you the opportunity to pretend you are part of the ground crew and "fine tune" your pitch, roll, and yaw for a specific ATA, but you still can't adjust them th flight.

 

That is how it was in "real life." The Fw-190D is the same as the BF-109k-4.

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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nope. we only got it for ailerons and rudder, but not for the elevator for some strange reason.

 

i think it doesnt make much sense that they refuse to give us elevator trim tabs. they were there in real life, and im of the opinion, that this should not only be here for the 109, but for all warbirds on all surfaces where the real life counterpart had them.

 

They "refuse" to provide "in-flight adjustable trim" because the "real life" airplane never had them.

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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They are obviously talking about the fixed trim tabs (Bügelkanten) mate and all 109s had these. The late G and K versions even had double the trim tab area installed compared to earlier models. Many people posted about this multiple times over the year's and I even provided pictures in Yoyos sticky flight trim thread. Also the K elevator is geared differently than F/G model elevators, with a different neural point and the DCS elevator is based mainly around a russian Bf 109 G-2 test.

 

It's either an engine limitation, which I don't believe and would be pretty poor, or ED simply doesn't want to fix it for whatever reasons.

 

Link 1:https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3235602&postcount=7

 

Link 2: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3455106&postcount=15


Edited by rel4y
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They are obviously talking about the fixed trim tabs (Bügelkanten) mate and all 109s had these. The late G and K versions even had double the trim tab area installed compared to earlier models. Many people posted about this multiple times over the year's and I even provided pictures in Yoyos sticky flight trim thread. Also the K elevator is geared differently than F/G model elevators, with a different neural point and the DCS elevator is based mainly around a russian Bf 109 G-2 test.

 

It's either an engine limitation, which I don't believe and would be pretty poor, or ED simply doesn't want to fix it for whatever reasons.

 

Link 1:https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3235602&postcount=7

 

Link 2: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3455106&postcount=15

 

I believe it could make a whole lot of a difference towards a better "depiction" of how a real K-4 should fly...


Edited by jcomm

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  • 1 month later...
i think in game model has this ground adjustable elevator thins

 

btw how tha heck this bf landed in forest

 

 

It didn't - these are partially assembled 109s hidden in the woods - either outside a factory, or a maintenance unit. You can see others without wings in the BG.

The ground adjustable trim tabs are there to correct minor problems with trim - not to set up how a particuar pilot wants them on each flight - having worked on aircraft with such trim tabs, they only ever got adjusted if a pilot landed & complained of flutter or a tendency to roll etc. We have to assume that our simulation is of a nice new kite that does not have any warp in control surfaces, too loose, or over tight cable, or such.


Edited by mkiii
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They "refuse" to provide "in-flight adjustable trim" because the "real life" airplane never had them.

 

Edit: You completely misunderstood him. The plane HAD ground adjustable elevator trim tabs which are missing in the game.


Edited by amazingme
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You completely misunderstood him. The plane HAD ground adjustable aileron trim tabs which are missing in the game.

 

The ground adjustable trim tabs are available on the special tab for the Bf-109 under main menu options, since years! :smartass:

It represents going to your maintennace tech and have him set the trim to your liking.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=180647&stc=1&d=1520720162


Edited by shagrat

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The ground adjustable trim tabs are available on the special tab for the Bf-109 under main menu options, since years! :smartass:

It represents going to your maintennace tech and have him set the trim to your liking.

 

Sry.. elevator trims not ailerons.

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Sry.. elevator trims not ailerons.

 

Elevator trim is provided by the handwheel, the pilot needs to trim that, according to height and CoG changing with fuel state. As far as I remember the trim tabs are adjusted with the wheel, so the wind force against the tabs is actually "trimming" the elevators. :book:

Sorry my bad! The elevators trim directly. No trim tabs...


Edited by shagrat

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What I don't understand is the constant pushing of the stick even with maximum (2) nose down trim set with the cockpit wheel...

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Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

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What I don't understand is the constant pushing of the stick even with maximum (2) nose down trim set with the cockpit wheel...
Fly cruise speed and you can more or less perfectly trim for level flight at about 12.000 to 18.000 ft.

AtA for cruise is 0.8 to 1.0 IIRC. a bit more than idle power. The BF-109 was a brilliant interceptor. It climbed well and could cruise comfortably at high altitudes.

We tend to not intercept in DCS, but rush to the action, as fast as possible. That is not what the plane was designed for. Prolonged operation at higher AtA puts unnecessary stress on the engine. Cruise at the right height and speed and it will be a smooth ride. ;)

Shagrat

 

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With ground adjustable tabs we wouldn't have this conversation. ;)

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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