Jump to content

F-117A isn't 100% invisible on radar


Mig Fulcrum

Recommended Posts

I've noticed the f-117 in DCS isn't stealth like you can see in the screenshot, i wish it become stealth in the near future, it could be an interesting (and realistic) feature in PvE matches.

Also the SAM managed to shoot down some F117s.

20161031125646_1.thumb.jpg.9ee26c9b8fbcc38976296c9623d87c2a.jpg

20161031125718_1.thumb.jpg.09537ba39015cadbf97c6089eaab47b3.jpg


Edited by Mig Fulcrum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, you're almost at close range, I think that any kind of radar could lock a stealth aircraft if it's close like in this case.

Also, do you remember that the Serbians was able to shot down an F-117 in 27 March of 1999? It's not "invisible" or impossible to be detect by radars, it's only more difficult.;)


Edited by GriffonBR
  • Like 1

Intel 8700K@4.7ghz(all cores) / 32Gb DDR4 /WD Black SN750 Heatsink 500gb (DCS Only) / MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z 8G / Windows 10 PRO / VPC WarBRD Base + Warthog Stick + Foxx Mount / Thrustmaster TPR pedals / Thustmaster MFD / Thrustmaster Warthog throttle + Monstertech chair mount

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if this plane had had such a technology, usa wouldn't have had it retired.

FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado

Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60

 

Youtube

MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well ok, and i don't know the real data for its RCS, but according to the database in DCS, its RCS has a value of 60... which seems a bit high for me, but well a mig 23 has a RCS of 4 in the database, looks like there's something wrong...

 

There is indeed something wrong then. That's not supposed to be like that. So yeah, looks like the F-117 is not really stealthy in DCS.


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahem, you're looking into F-117 from a rear hemisphere at a distance of less then one mile. Or even front, doesn't matter. F-117 is not a UFO, it's a plane with low radar observability. From certain radars, at certain aspect angles.

 

Try doing another experiment: put F-15 and F-117 at the same distance from your plane, say 80 miles, head aspect. Then fly towards them and compare at which point you'll see F-15 and compare it with F-117.

  • Like 1

AMD R7 5800X3D | Aorus B550 Pro | 32GB DDR4-3600 | RTX 4080 | VKB MGC Pro Gunfighter Mk III + Thustmaster TWCS + VKB T-Rudder Mk4 | HP Reverb G2

FC3 | A-10C II | Ка-50 | P-51 | UH-1 | Ми-8 | F-86F | МиГ-21 | FW-190 | МиГ-15 | Л-39 | Bf 109 | M-2000C | F-5 | Spitfire | AJS-37 | AV-8B | F/A-18C | Як-52 | F-14 | F-16 | Ми-24 | AH-64

NTTR | Normandy | Gulf | Syria | Supercarrier |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

also, IIRC stealth is not moddeled ingame

 

Radar Cross Section is Modeled, So is Radar Specifics.

 

At a few hundred Meters, the Radar will easily detect the aircraft, regardless of Shape or RAM Coating.

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont wanna citate YT but the guy who did most of the F4, F16 planning said that stealth is a myth and he went into some detail ( wave length bound detection ).

 

That guy also said the F-35 is a sitting duck and not worth a penny...well, I think there are two things I agree with him.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the downed 117, Enemy forces say they tweaked the wavelengths of their radars to acquire the aircraft at its most vulnerable point, when weapons bay was open.

 

Also, information suggests some communications were intercepted and allowed Enemy forces to focus their SAMs in a certain area.

 

With that said B-2 strikes minutes after the 117 was shot down continued and they were not engaged during the period of "vulnerability". Take it for what its worth.

 

117s continue to fly today in some capacity. (source Combat aircraft) They may just be maintenance flights.

 

63

My CAS (Close air support) JTAC Channel:  RIFLE - YouTube  

RIFLE's Discord:  https://discord.gg/cmDCrr4Z2g  

Publications

JTAC Bible (see/know chapter #5) https://fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_09_3.pdf

J-FIRE pocket guide (Don't do battle without it!)  BK2 (fas.org)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the downed 117, Enemy forces say they tweaked the wavelengths of their radars to acquire the aircraft at its most vulnerable point, when weapons bay was open.

 

Also, information suggests some communications were intercepted and allowed Enemy forces to focus their SAMs in a certain area.

 

Another SIGNIFIGANT issue was repetition of actions. If ya fly the same routes...at the same times...several night in a row...you are gonna get caught.

 

Sierra

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont wanna citate YT but the guy who did most of the F4, F16 planning said that stealth is a myth and he went into some detail ( wave length bound detection ).

 

That guy also said the F-35 is a sitting duck and not worth a penny...well, I think there are two things I agree with him.

You mean Pierre Sprey? The guy who said the F-15 was a waste of money? The one who thought pilots were expendable by throwing them in cheap aircraft with no radars (F-16 pilot who has flown the MiG-29 to the F-15 said the F-16 would be better with a bigger radar..)? The one who said the M60 was comparable, or even better than the Abrams because you could field twice the amount of tanks (what good would that do? The cannon would have a hard time against even a bare T-72...).

 

I don't wanna go OT, but here's some new information lately...

 

"The patent claims composites with CNT-infused fibers are capable of absorbing EM waves from 0.1 MHz to 60 GHz, a bandwidth unheard of in commercial absorbers, with particular effectiveness in L- through K-band. The patent does not quantify the absorptivity, but does say the panels would be “nearly a black body across . . . various radar bands.” Also, interestingly, a layer can be composed so an attached computer can read the induced currents in the fibers, making the layer a radar receiver."

 

I'd say that's quite impressive for F-35, and doesn't sound like it's a sitting duck at all.

 

Sounds like to me the USAF learned it's lesson about long wave length radars with the F-117 downing.

 

I would also like to throw in there was no jamming that night, which would've been especially helpful. USAF knows that stealth isn't the end all, be all solution for air defense. That's why they apply jamming techniques and even have developed things such as MALD-J's.

 

All the stars lined up for the shootdown, but it was indeed a big feat. So you can't take away from that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed the f-117 in DCS isn't stealth like you can see in the screenshot, i wish it become stealth in the near future, it could be an interesting (and realistic) feature in PvE matches.

Also the SAM managed to shoot down some F117s.

 

stealth depends on the technology of the opposite side. But is not invisible


Edited by JunMcKill
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the plane were considered invisible, they would have called it that.

 

A sniper in a Ghillie suit isn't invisible either, but he is probably also considered stealthy.

  • Like 1

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Russian defense minister said weeks ago, and I quote:

 

The Major General also warned that Russia has S-400 and S-300 air-defense systems deployed to protect its troops stationed at the Tartus naval supply base and the Hmeymim airbase in Syria. The effective range of the weapons may be "a surprise" to all unidentified flying objects.

 

"Russian air defense system crews are unlikely to have time to determine in a ‘straight line’ the exact flight paths of missiles and then who the warheads belong to. And all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality," Konashenkov added.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit:sorry for mix-up to SR-71!

 

The F-117 is as mystified as is whole "Stealth" concept.

 

There ain't "Stealth" and "non-Stealth", there is only a range when aircraft echoes that it sends back to the radar overcomes the background noise and starts making a "blibs" and it is detection, and then comes a range when chose are so strong that you can be tracked.

 

And trough the history, F-117 has been able to be detected and even locked on.

Hundreds of SAM has been fired at it but without good success to down one because it's speed and then jamming (jamming with energy absorption body means jamming is more powerful than radar echoes to closer ranges, until radar "burns trough") but as well Soviets got to stop the F-117 flights because with Mig-31 they could intercept F-117 and even lock on them, without permission to launch a missile until F-117 flu over border of USSR, but they didn't need to because solid lock from BVR was already a message that F-117 couldn't anymore penetrate USSR airspace without getting shot down by a interceptor.

 

Ex-pilot giving a tour for F-117.

 

 

If someone wants to make a "invisible" aircraft, then it needs to be either absorbing all the radiation (and to the eye looks like total black shape) or allow all that to be passing it (now becomes all the fancy Sci-Fi things about UFOs that can become invisible). And both are having a one and the same problem about physics, you can't consume energy or generate more of it, as energy will change form, but it will always be there.

 

 

And at some point there simply comes a system (if doesn't already exist) that reads the background emissions and simply search for the anomalies in it. Just like how there was a old 90's movie "broken arrow" about F-117, and how they simply started to track it by scanning air disturbance that aircraft caused by speeding through the air.

 

So no matter of what, you will always be detectable. Question is only "from what range" and when you are, then it is "then what?". If F-35 is only detectable but not lockable for SAM, that ain't the case for an fighter that is guided at it by GCI and will be close to lock on at it.

 

 

And about F-117 in DCS...

 

 

Unrealistic as it would be detectable by AWACS and GCI if they just get line of sight to it. Why even today you want to fly low and use terrain to mask you from radars, and that is the interesting part when Viggen module comes as that was designed to fly low, and Viggen pilots fly lower and faster than any other pilot dares.


Edited by Fri13

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ex-pilot giving a tour for F-117.

 

https://youtu.be/F4KD5u-xkik.

 

Er, aside from the broken video link, that's a tour of the SR-71, not the F-117. Are you mixing them up?

 

I've not heard of anything regarding a Mig-31 -> F117 matchup, plus the publically available specs for the '31's original radar reckon it could lock an aircraft with a 3m RCS at 35k. The F-117 has a RCS of 0.1m afaik.


Edited by Buzzles
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Er, aside from the broken video link, that's a tour of the SR-71, not the F-117. Are you mixing them up?

LOL

 

Sorry for that mix-up. That happens when you write tired ;-). The link is OK, just Ed forum breaks things (again). Need to remove the YouTube code.

 

I've not heard of anything regarding a Mig-31 -> F117 matchup, plus the publically available specs for the '31's original radar reckon it could lock an aircraft with a 3m RCS at 35k. The F-117 has a RCS of 0.1m afaik.

 

Well, ex-pilot for MIG has stated the BVR locks.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, ex-pilot for MIG has stated the BVR locks.

 

I would be curious as to where, and when, that happened.

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...