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A suggestion regarding control setup for DCS..


ATAG_Bliss

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I don't find that bad, as is either... except for having to clear out the cross column entries. Though if brought up to being a truly modern system, it seems it would keep some happy

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

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Hi,

i concur, that the curent controler setup has quite some drawbacks. I wonder however, how do ED and or 3rd party developers create the controller templates that come with a module? Are they written by hand? I am asking, because if some kind of tool is used, maybe it would be feasable to realese this tool as a bridging solllution for the current situation until the system itself can be revised.

Nate, can you shed some light on the developing process regarding controller setups?

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Oh, another thing that would be nice is if we could edit the controls whilst flying, pausing first of course, as we can in other games like ArmA. It's a major pain to have to exit the mission and let DCSW load again when we find a key is not set correctly or whatever. If the Controls setup was a separate app, this could be loaded when pausing and selecting Edit Controls (or users could have it loaded already before launching DCSW if they intend to edit the controls) and then after editing and saving back to the lua, the sim modules should be able to use the new controls. If the modules currently load the controls from the lua files into memory when they first launch and don't refer to the files after that, then it would require adding a routine to re-load the controls from the lua files after editing, which could be done automatically whenever resuming from pause, as I doubt it would take any noticeable time.

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It does - as the current system requires controls to be setup again in order to take advantage of any new commands added. The Current design is not fit for purpose.

Nate

 

That's no kidding. After being used to automatic and easy control setup, this system is abysmal in comparison.

 

I only wish I knew what the thinking was behind all those redundant columns, as the only advantage I see is using multiple controls / buttons to do the same exact function, but again, any HOTAS manufacturer worth a darn already would allow you to assign any command you want as any key to do the same exact thing.

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"I only wish I knew what the thinking was behind all those redundant columns"

 

Apparently, they're only redundant for some? Others seem happy and others again want other features.

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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Well, there's no need for rudeness :music_whistling: Is there something bad about being adaptable? (most would think that to be a good thing)

Try CH Manager out of its TIE IN mode and sorting some spare USB slots for you to swap things in and out of and leave your control gear constant and clearing out your multitude of ghost entries (non-present devices which are listed all over the place) be careful with the VGA though ;)

 

It was a suggestion thread. Of course I'm adapting. I am still setting up my controls aren't I? And you're the only one that keeps mentioning ghost entries or w/e. I don't care about that as the CH software fixes it all.

 

I don't mean to sound rude, but you completely miss the point, and I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over again.

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...and will arrive in conjunction with some other good things for DCS.

 

let me guess...EDGE :megalol: :music_whistling:

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That's no kidding. After being used to automatic and easy control setup, this system is abysmal in comparison.

 

I only wish I knew what the thinking was behind all those redundant columns, as the only advantage I see is using multiple controls / buttons to do the same exact function, but again, any HOTAS manufacturer worth a darn already would allow you to assign any command you want as any key to do the same exact thing.

 

Apologies Bliss, just to be clear, none of my posts in this thread are addressing your issues, I am specifically referring to the Problem Devrim highlighted.

 

nate

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It does - as the current system requires controls to be setup again in order to take advantage of any new commands added. The Current design is not fit for purpose.

 

Nate

 

Sure, it needs a complete redesign/rewrite (maybe for that particular problem it could check the number of lines in the active control lua against the installed build's masterlist and if they differ, then do the more complicated line-by-line comparison to find which lines are missing and insert them), I just don't see it as that complex to design and code a controls setup system, in comparison to fixing some in-game issues anyway where you have to be constantly mindful that any change might negatively affect numerous other things.

 

The Axis/Curves setup routines seems fine, better than anything I've seen in any other game/sim certainly, not that I've played them all and I imagine they can be re-used at least.

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Apologies Bliss, just to be clear, none of my posts in this thread are addressing your issues, I am specifically referring to the Problem Devrim highlighted.

 

nate

 

Yikes. That's a shame.

 

I'm sure there's other people out there that have 6 or so devices they fly with. This surely has been suggested before I would hope?

 

I mean, compared to setting up controls in other sims, this is abysmal. It's a lesson in frustration, especially my particular situation.

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I only wish I knew what the thinking was behind all those redundant columns, as the only advantage I see is using multiple controls / buttons to do the same exact function, but again, any HOTAS manufacturer worth a darn already would allow you to assign any command you want as any key to do the same exact thing.

 

It makes sense to be able to assign multiple keys to one function (for instance, I use an Xbox360 controller to control the Shkval but also have those controls mapped to my HOTAS) but as I mentioned, the method used in ArmA, where it shows a single box listing all keys/buttons/axis assigned to the command, is much more sensible.

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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~

 

And you're the only one that keeps mentioning ghost entries or w/e. I don't care about that as the CH software fixes it all.

 

~

 

 

 

Perhaps you should as it does make a difference /- and obviously it doesn't.

 

The one thing about this sim, and its unique for it in that if you're getting frustrated... its usually not the sim

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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Yeah I understand that Doveman. But that's why you all the software companies of (well the big brands at least) of HOTAS stuff all allow you to emulate any key for any button you want.

 

For instance, if I wanted my assign every single button on my joystick to command the letter "k" on the keyboard, it does it easily. So I could have any number of multiple keys doing the same thing right through software emulation. Making the control setup in game that way, just makes it overly complicated and very counter productive.

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Perhaps you should as it does make a difference /- and obviously it doesn't.

 

The one thing about this sim, and its unique for it in that if you're getting frustrated... its usually not the sim

 

No it doesn't.. It's not my fault that ED does not allow enough characters in between columns for the names of my devices. They should know full well the number of users that use CH products let alone CH software.

 

Stop blaming the issue on me and stop trolling this thread.

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Yeah I understand that Doveman. But that's why you all the software companies of (well the big brands at least) of HOTAS stuff all allow you to emulate any key for any button you want.

 

For instance, if I wanted my assign every single button on my joystick to command the letter "k" on the keyboard, it does it easily. So I could have any number of multiple keys doing the same thing right through software emulation. Making the control setup in game that way, just makes it overly complicated and very counter productive.

 

Yeah but my Thrustmaster Hotas X doesn't have any such software, nor does the Xbox360 Controller. I can and do use Xpadder to assign keys to buttons but that's no good for assigning axes and some people might not want to spend $10 buying Xpadder, so DCSW does need to allow assigning multiple keys to each function.

 

You probably haven't seen the ArmA controls setup but you'd see it's not at all complicated and very easy to use, whilst still providing the power to assign controls as required.

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~ but as I mentioned, the method used in ArmA, where it shows a single box listing all keys/buttons/axis assigned to the command, is much more sensible.

 

 

I don't run ArmA but how does that differ from Command Name on the left and assignments listed in respective controllers going across to the right? I mean, its just a spreadsheet

 

 

Yeah I understand that Doveman. But that's why you all the software companies of (well the big brands at least) of HOTAS stuff all allow you to emulate any key for any button you want.

 

 

Saitek doesn't... double assignments, on the same device in software, will cause a crash (or at least it used to the last time I inadvertently did that ;) )


Edited by Wolf Rider

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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I don't run ArmA but how does that differ from Command Name on the left and assignments listed in respective controllers going across to the right? I mean, its just a spreadsheet

 

What it has is the main screen where you'll see a list as you describe, something like:

 

Pitch Forward - Thrustmaster Hotas X Axis -X;Xbox360 Controller

 

and so on. There is a limitation here as there's not enough room to show all the controls assigned to a function if there's several (I have suggested they make the controls setup screen use the whole screen rather than just the bottom-left corner but they don't seem interested). However, double-clicking on Pitch Forward will open a window which shows the command (i.e. Pitch Forward) at the top and underneath, each button/axis/key assigned to that command, like:

 

Pitch Forward

-------------

Thrustmaster Hotas X Axis -X

Xbox360 Controller Axis -X

Up

Mouse Up

W

 

and these can be deleted, added to by pressing the key/button or moving the axis (for the Mouse buttons/axis these are listed on the right, from where they can be dragged into the assigned commands list, as obviously it's not possible to add them by moving/clicking the mouse, as it's being used as a mouse in this screen).

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Thanks Doveman... got it (I think) seems to just bring up the row entries instead of scrolling the columns and reading across


Edited by Wolf Rider

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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My G940 is listed as Throttle, Rudder, Joystick I do not have a column for each axis of the joystick, rudder, and throttle. I have trim axis on my Joystick and throttle and they are not listed separate either. It must be the way the CH products commands are output or something. I thought CH was more "custom" than most of the "big name" hotas systems. The TMWH was designed specifically for A10C so it should be no surprise it works out of the box for that game.

 

Sorry you are having frustrations. My biggest frustration is that sometimes my trim wheels are not picked up in the controls section so I have to use the drop down menu options and guess which one I need to assign.

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I haven't issues either with it, I have a saitek profile saved & a vac profile, I don't need much else within the sim, if they change it I would be annoyed.

 

I don't see any reason why changing the interface to be more user-friendly and intuitive should stop your saved profile working, so there's no need to be annoyed ;)

Main rig: i5-4670k @4.4Ghz, Asus Z97-A, Scythe Kotetsu HSF, 32GB Kingston Savage 2400Mhz DDR3, 1070ti, Win 10 x64, Samsung Evo 256GB SSD (OS & Data), OCZ 480GB SSD (Games), WD 2TB and WD 3TB HDDs, 1920x1200 Dell U2412M, 1920x1080 Dell P2314T touchscreen

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When setting controls in DCS using my X52 pro I do not need to specify axis or button settings. I simply click the desired function and then hit the button, or cycle the axis I want to control that function. Autodetection within DCS works just fine for me.

 

Hmm - It seems as though you didn't read what I said.

 

Autodetection works fine as long as you're in the right box in the right column that you are using. If you have 8 different columns all labeled the exact same and only 1 of those columns is for your joystick, then you need to find out which one it is 1st, then go to that specific row and column then you can finally assign a key.

 

In other sims there's only one box to check. It doesn't matter if I'm assigning a joystick button, an axis to my throttle, rudder pedals etc., the ONE column picks up every single device.

 

So if I was to have to setup my axis controls, say in Clod, I'd go straight down a single column and wiggle, move, etc., what every input I wanted and the game picks it up. While in DCS, I have to select from 8 different columns 1st, which means I also will be scrolling sideways to find my device. But when my devices are all labeled exactly the same. And each column only autodetects one single device instead of every device like other sims, it's frustrating.

 

People have told me to unlink my controls in CH manager, but the problem is I have 2 CH multifunction panels. DCS only picks up one of those unless I bind them together with CH software.

 

And there are other people out there that cannot even fly DCS because their customized usb throttle quadrants and interfaces have never been picked up by the DCS system. But they can play other sims.

 

I know at least one person that can't even play DCS because he can't use his custom controls in this game, again, because it can't autodetect them.

 

The design of the system is very antiquated compared to other flight sims.

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