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Old 05-16-2020, 11:56 AM   #11
Starfire
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Originally Posted by Tiger4-2 View Post
So I suppose I just want to speculate for a moment...what do you guys think will be our options as far as navigation and getting back to the carrier, particularly at night? !

As far as my reseach goes, night sorties from carries are operationel exceptions from the rule. They simply diden't do it becourse the risk was not worth it.
The Royal Navy's strike on Tarranto are one of the few exceptions.
They would send the strikes out a dawn, sometimes before the first light, but returning in darkness was almost never done.



Nightflying was restricted to land based bombers, transports and specialized nightfighters which had the ability co carry heavy nav radios as well as having RADAR to guide them home.



I flew a a lot of IL-2 1946 SEOW campaigns; Some from carriers. YE-Hayrake was the only tool to find your carrier as sea, since deadreckoning is useless when there are nothing but sea around you and wind could push you out of course.



https://youtu.be/9ljgmXx07R8?list=PL..._YqsHfeQ&t=168
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Starfire View Post

I flew a a lot of IL-2 1946 SEOW campaigns; Some from carriers. YE-Hayrake was the only tool to find your carrier as sea, since deadreckoning is useless when there are nothing but sea around you and wind could push you out of course.

https://youtu.be/9ljgmXx07R8?list=PL..._YqsHfeQ&t=168

As did I and I can say that DR (dead reckoning) navigation was not that bad. If you have an E6B navigation computer or have a virtual one online, you can be very accurate flying around in the virtual world of DCS or IL-2 and the biggest source of error is you not holding a planned course or airspeed and not minding the clock. The reason being that the winds set in the ME are constant throughout the map. Time, distance and heading are extremely useful in the absence of GPS or inertial nav


Having said all of that, I would still like to see ED model the Hayrake radio navigation system
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Old 05-16-2020, 08:14 PM   #13
xvii-Dietrich
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One of my dreams about WWII-era flying, too. Inspired by old movies like, "Air Force" (1943). Although, I had never heard of the YE-ZB until now. B-17's, PBY's and other patrol aircraft going out several hundreds of miles to sea in search of enemy ships. The navigator's desk and radio operator's station aboard these larger planes. So far not a part of DCS's short-range tactical air combat. I think HF radio would be interesting in DCS, and MW and SW radio. If there could be a radio spectrum simulation associated with scenery maps where broadcast stations of the era could be received with realistic attenuation and interference from various sources, such as thunderstorms and ionosphere. I imagine being able to tune in vintage radio programs and vintage music while flying in the DCS map (ability to load your own mp3 files and have them sound like they are coming over the airwaves from long distance). Would one be able to tune in broadcasts from Hawaii or Australia from locations like the Mariannas or the Solomons? And that's not to mention sending and receiving key coded radio messages. I don't think they used Morse code, but we could use that, as well as an optional Morse code to text and text-to-code conversion tool in-game. Sometimes interference would make the coded message difficult to receive where only a partial message could be understood. And so forth. That would really help with immersion in the sim/game, especially on long flights over the Pacific. Imagine being able to send a key-coded message from a patrol aircraft on location of enemy ships, and then AI carrier battle group would "understand" message and launch planes on an airstrike. Way beyond the short attention span of most DCS players, I know, but it's a cool dream, I think...if we are entertaining the idea of WWII aviation at all.

There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but the above sums it up for me...

Radio operator in a Catalina on long-range maritime patrol, chattering out the morse, and doing trigonometry on the plotting chart to find some calm water in a quiet island bay to land. Bliss.
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Old 05-16-2020, 08:27 PM   #14
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Bring it on please!!!

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Old 05-17-2020, 01:01 PM   #15
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By the end of the war they had pretty sophisticated nav capabilities. But all you need is a radio direction finder, a compass (or the stars), and some math. dead reckoning is pretty accurate if done correctly. I trained in aircraft before GPS was a thing. I didn't get lost.

As far as playing period broadcasts over radio stations goes, this is all possible through the mission editor already as far as I can tell. You just need some sound files and a little coding
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:13 AM   #16
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Leatherneck Simulations writes in 2020 Spring update "...we took an effort to implement a Ye/Zb radio navigation system used by U.S. aircraft during WW2...".

So, one day, WWII Marianas map, F4U-1D and Essex CV slass with working Ye/Zb radio
(everyone could have dreams)

http://leatherneck-sim.com/2020/05/20/crouching-update/
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Old 05-27-2020, 03:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tiger4-2 View Post
Hey guys,

So I posted this in the subreddit and nobody cared. I figured I'd try my luck here. So here goes...

I'm beyond excited for the Leatherneck F4U-1D release, as well as the Pacific Theater; I'm something of a wwii naval aviation fanatic.

Because of this I've been scouring the web for original flight training manuals and doing my best to emulate the training curriculum from the time period(Yes I'm that much of a nerd, and yes I found alot of goodies), starting with the N2S for primary/ground school and ending with the SNJ/AT-6 for Advanced flight training. It's been a truly eye opening and awesome experience immersing myself in training manuals and flight procedures, and one of the most interesting subjects thus far has been navigation.

I was able to locate a consolidated version of "Air Navigation parts 1-5, c. 1943", the textbook used by flight schools to train their aviators, and I've been thoroughly intrigued by what I've found.

Before the days of INS and TACAN, Naval Aviators had to be experts at navigating with the big 4:

1. Pilotage - Using terrain features such as roads and buildings.
2. Dead Reckoning - Method of finding position by using a compass heading and time in flight relative to a starting point.
3. Navigation by Radio - using the directional properties of radio waves to find position, such as VOR or the YE-ZB(Think early INS)
4. Celestial Navigation - using the heavenly bodies and a bubble sextant, along with plotting charts to determine your position.

So I suppose I just want to speculate for a moment...what do you guys think will be our options as far as navigation and getting back to the carrier, particularly at night? We already know that DCS has an accurate star-map, so implementing a sextant shouldn't be too hard(They already have them in X-Plane and FSX). Will we see the YE-ZB? What about the Mk3a plotter and whiz wheel used to find the carrier position on a map?

I'm curious to know what you guys think. Also if anyone has any links to good resources for textbooks, manuals, or other things which will benefit me in this endeavor, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also...I would literally finance an F6F myself if I could afford it. Can someone make this airplane before I have to learn to code and do it myself? Lol

Thanks and happy flying!

Dad was a V-12A Naval Aviator (Marine), who graduated at the very end of WWII/VJ as a Corsair Pilot.


On land, it was low-frequency radio range.


Around the boat, it was YE-ZB, pre-flight course plotting, and dead reckoning.


[EDIT]

YE-ZB.pdf

YE-ZB Presentation




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Last edited by Bowie; 05-27-2020 at 01:25 PM.
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