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RAZBAM MiG-19


OverStratos

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You can call it plain "fantasy". A bad development for a simulator Imho. Optional is fine, but the current DCS trend of enforcing fantasy stuff needs to stop.

 

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what fantasy stuff? havent noticed DCS DCS to enforce or intentional make fantasy aircraft. Dont see F15C with aim54 phoenix or a M2000C firing MICA missiles. ( at lest unless players used mods ofc, but thats a different story)

 

s

 

theres still a difference between uncommon lessr produced variation or field mod vs "fantasy" features. perhaps this i a "grey" area, but its not a black or white cases all the time.

 

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The Mig19 is a "second generation" jet fighter aircraft. I quite like that we are getting it but Im kind of worried that since it will be the first 2nd gen. in the sim, there won't be that much to do with it, unless it comes with a robust campaign in place. (And that doesn't solve the problems of multiplayer).

 

Sort of. The idea of fighter "generations" gets murky here. These were retrospectively applied to older aircraft whilst later generations were developed.

 

Depending how you look at it the MiG-19 is either a late first gen (Gen 1+ if you will) as it is in essence a really souped up MiG-15.

 

The version we're getting does have more of the features typically given to second generation fighters e.g. radar + missiles but these are add-ons just like reduced RCS, AESA and TVC are the add-ons of current Gen 4+ fighters. (The more tricky acronyms the better probably)

 

Similarly I consider the MiG-21bis and F-5E3 to be Gen 2 with Gen 3 kind of being the "Orphan Generation" with the oddball planes like the MiG-23 and Mirage F-1, sort of a stop-gap response to Vietnam and the Arab-Israeli wars showing that dogfighting was still in fashion.

 

 

TLDR; Don't put too much stock into the "generations" they're mostly subjective.

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what fantasy stuff? havent noticed DCS DCS to enforce or intentional make fantasy aircraft. Dont see F15C with aim54 phoenix or a M2000C firing MICA missiles. ( at lest unless players used mods ofc, but thats a different story)

 

s

 

theres still a difference between uncommon lessr produced variation or field mod vs "fantasy" features. perhaps this i a "grey" area, but its not a black or white cases all the time.

 

There are two examples of "Fantasy" stuff on aircraft in DCS. The one is minor, the other is blatant.

 

The minor one is the missile launch warning system on the Mirage 2000C5. Now the sensors are found on other export versions of the Mirage 2000, and there is nothing preventing its installation on a Mirage 2000C5, but technically it never had it. It's a semantic argument to be sure, but it can be an issue to some players.

 

The major one is the ability to fire the Kh-66 Grom on the MiG-21Bis. The Sapphir radar is incapable of firing the weapon. Full stop. Absolutely. So it is "fantasy" in that regard. The reason its included is because there are so many versions of the MiG-21 and some versions of the MiG-21 used a different radar that was capable of firing the weapon, but the one we have in game is flat out incapable of doing so. In addition, the MiG-21Bis has unrealistic pipper behavior when it comes to its IR missiles. Again, pure fantasy, but included anyway.

 

Personally, I don't mind small things like this. I'd be perfectly happy with an F-14 that could fire Harpoons or AMRAAMs as they were tested on the flight test squadron, or a MiG-19P with some form of RWR, but there are others who take their realism very seriously and don't want to see that sort of thing included in the module as it does impact realism.

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There are two examples of "Fantasy" stuff on aircraft in DCS. The one is minor, the other is blatant.

 

The minor one is the missile launch warning system on the Mirage 2000C5. Now the sensors are found on other export versions of the Mirage 2000, and there is nothing preventing its installation on a Mirage 2000C5, but technically it never had it. It's a semantic argument to be sure, but it can be an issue to some players.

 

The major one is the ability to fire the Kh-66 Grom on the MiG-21Bis. The Sapphir radar is incapable of firing the weapon. Full stop. Absolutely. So it is "fantasy" in that regard. The reason its included is because there are so many versions of the MiG-21 and some versions of the MiG-21 used a different radar that was capable of firing the weapon, but the one we have in game is flat out incapable of doing so. In addition, the MiG-21Bis has unrealistic pipper behavior when it comes to its IR missiles. Again, pure fantasy, but included anyway.

 

Personally, I don't mind small things like this. I'd be perfectly happy with an F-14 that could fire Harpoons or AMRAAMs as they were tested on the flight test squadron, or a MiG-19P with some form of RWR, but there are others who take their realism very seriously and don't want to see that sort of thing included in the module as it does impact realism.

 

ah i see

 

but as for the pipper thing for IR missiles its optional thing and not a standard fuctction, so with regards to the sight i guess its still simulated function if players fly option off.

 

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Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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There are two examples of "Fantasy" stuff on aircraft in DCS. The one is minor, the other is blatant.

 

The minor one is the missile launch warning system on the Mirage 2000C5. Now the sensors are found on other export versions of the Mirage 2000, and there is nothing preventing its installation on a Mirage 2000C5, but technically it never had it. It's a semantic argument to be sure, but it can be an issue to some players.

 

The major one is the ability to fire the Kh-66 Grom on the MiG-21Bis. The Sapphir radar is incapable of firing the weapon. Full stop. Absolutely. So it is "fantasy" in that regard. The reason its included is because there are so many versions of the MiG-21 and some versions of the MiG-21 used a different radar that was capable of firing the weapon, but the one we have in game is flat out incapable of doing so. In addition, the MiG-21Bis has unrealistic pipper behavior when it comes to its IR missiles. Again, pure fantasy, but included anyway.

 

Personally, I don't mind small things like this. I'd be perfectly happy with an F-14 that could fire Harpoons or AMRAAMs as they were tested on the flight test squadron, or a MiG-19P with some form of RWR, but there are others who take their realism very seriously and don't want to see that sort of thing included in the module as it does impact realism.

 

One minor correction for the M-2000 DDM (Missile Launch Detector). The sensor is installed in the D (ground attack) version used by the AdA (French Air Force). It is not used in the C, because the M-2000 DDM sensors have a limited view zone and they are used to detect MANPADs. Thus only aircraft that will flow close to the ground will require it. The C is an interceptor with secondary Air-to-Ground capabilities, so the AdA never saw the need to install the DDM in them since they will never send Cs to go flying nape of the earth to attack a ground target.

 

We decided to include them because we know that many are using the M-2000C as a strike aircraft and in that role the DDM does make sense.

 

The great flame war happened because many thought that the DDM can be used in an Air-to-Air engagement. But it really has a limited capability in that role because:

 

a. It has a huge blind spot in the rear

b. It cannot "see" missile launches from above.

 

But in order to accommodate everybody we made it optional to mount the DDM in the M-2000C.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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The question is, will we get the regular "S" non radar equipped variant too?

It's already been confirmed as a P variant. I think the bigger thing here is which little discrepancies like the SPO and if these little systems will be in or not. They may not have been in the production versions but are I the derivatives. Similar to the DDM from the M2K

 

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Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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OverStratos - any plans on putting in rocket-assisted takeoff?

 

 

Seems interesting but don't know how it was incorporated in real use. It would be fun to see a squadron of these burst out of the hedgerows of Normandy for a cold-war gone hot scenario :)

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OverStratos - any plans on putting in rocket-assisted takeoff?

 

 

Seems interesting but don't know how it was incorporated in real use. It would be fun to see a squadron of these burst out of the hedgerows of Normandy for a cold-war gone hot scenario :)

It wasn't incorporated at all as the whole basic concept behind it was flown. The original goal was to launch fighters from mobile platforms that could be towed by trucks and set up pretty much in any place, in event of destruction of the runways. The problem is as far launching was possible (though dangerous) the planes wouldn’t had a place to land afterwards. This would be an expensive way to get the planes in the air. The program was cancel and didn't go further than the prototype stage.

Much more practical and actually implemented was to use road sections.

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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It wasn't incorporated at all as the whole basic concept behind it was flown. The original goal was to launch fighters from mobile platforms that could be towed by trucks and set up pretty much in any place, in event of destruction of the runways. The problem is as far launching was possible (though dangerous) the planes wouldn’t had a place to land afterwards. This would be an expensive way to get the planes in the air. The program was cancel and didn't go further than the prototype stage.

Much more practical and actually implemented was to use road sections.

Also... At the time this was being developed, surface to air guided missile technology was advancing quickly... So they figured that exactly the same could be done with those for less risk and more practicality. :)

 

Though that way of launch would be cool of course! But... I'l be fine without getting it, after all it was a canceled program... Russian space program for the win tho (really, imagine that with infinate fuel...)! :D

DCS: MiG-23

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  • 2 weeks later...

So... Any development updates? Or is it all focused on the Harrier till' that thing's released? :D


Edited by asla36
I'm a... Grammar-Nazi! ;)

DCS: MiG-23

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  • 3 weeks later...

About the fantasy stuff, Kh-66 used exactly the same guidance system as RS-2us, which was the main armament of bis for "everyday use". So no, Kh-66 is not fantasy.

 

As for MiG-19, to my knowledge it used Sirena-2.

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About the fantasy stuff, Kh-66 used exactly the same guidance system as RS-2us, which was the main armament of bis for "everyday use". So no, Kh-66 is not fantasy.

 

As for MiG-19, to my knowledge it used Sirena-2.

MiG-21Bis mount a RP-22SMA radar. This radar cannot guide RS-2U nor X-66. Only older versions of the Fishbed, equipped with RP-21 M/MA can guide them.

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  • 1 month later...
but there are others who take their realism very seriously and don't want to see that sort of thing included in the module as it does impact realism.

They must have a firearm in drawers, just in case if they get blown up by a missile or by any other reason.

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Hello all,

 

First of all, I would like to apologize to all those who where waiting for a DCS MiG-23 really hard. You can be sure I was one of them.

 

As the MiG-23 was not authorized, we started to push our second project which is the MiG-19. I´ve been swiming in MiG-19s and MiG-19 documentation for the past two months as at the beginning it was supposed that we would have more time to gather all the necessary data and as a consequence, some info is still missing.

 

We appreciate any help.:D

 

A new historically acurrate MiG-19P model is being made. I will be posting some work in progress pictures of the new MiG-19 model around next week.

 

Thank you and your team for making the Mig-19 that is currently in development, a really nice surprise. :thumbup: MJ


Edited by mjmorrow
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Skins...

Pretty please?

0813a.jpg

 

Here a photo of preserved PM, for color reference ;)

 

2718324111_d09f5aa4dd.jpg

 

 

EDIT: Speaking of PM... I know you guys are conscidering the 19S.. but what about PM? Much easier to convert :D

EDIT2: ...just gotta love the fixed-beam mode for 19PM... first AGM capable plane? :D

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If we were to get the MiG-19p and s, any possibility of an additional MiG-19pm in an even farther future? I know I'm just asking and asking for moar, MOAR MiG-19!

 

I wouldn't imagine that making 3 variants would be too difficult. Maybe as difficult as adding the radar variant of the AV-8B? The avionics of that time would be much simpler, but I'm probably asking fot too much.

 

Anyways 2 variants will be more than enough for me, and if we were to get 2, I would prefer the option you have chosen. The MiG-19s would offer a lighter missile-less aircraft for dogfighting, and the MiG-19p would offer a bit heavier all weather interceptor for sneaking and IR-ing in the mountains. And if we were to only get one, i would prefer the MiG-19p for it's bigger array of ordinance and all-weather capabilities.

 

So in short, I like the way you decided to do things. Thanks for bringing such an awesome bird to life in DCS!

DCS: MiG-23

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