My BAUR BRD-F3 Rudder Pedals arrived today. Unboxing Pics!

Now a second spring in my VKB Mamba MkIII broke, and VKB is not sending out spare parts... lol.

There must be a solution. Maybe you could get the springs from VKB Europe, as they're going to receive some shipment from VKB (China)?

At least, it's good to know those springs could snap.

If you can't find a solution, please PM me: I have some spare springs from my Mk2 (and Mk3) gimbal(s). I can send you a pair or something (I don't care about shipping costs).

----

On-topic: That's a delight to see Baur is working on including dampers. I'd love to have a smoother feeling with my control stick. I'm convinced it would improve the overall precision and feeling as the springs elasticity won't try to guide your hand that much.

And it's obviously a great deal when using an extender and stronger forces.

Keep the updates coming ;)

If you can't find a solution, please PM me: I have some spare springs from my Mk2 (and Mk3) gimbal(s). I can send you a pair or something (I don't care about shipping costs).

I appreciate the kind offer, Bourrinopathe; I am in contact with VKB and working on a solution - so far, so good! :) I'll let you know if things change.

Broken extension springs are a relatively common occurrence in Cougar UberNXT gimbal, tip of owner to minimize this:

"please use brass bushings around the screws where you are anchoring your springs, as well as plenty of grease. Otherwise you will bust the springs and they will also creak."

Broken extension springs are a relatively common occurrence in Cougar UberNXT gimbal, tip of owner to minimize this:

 

"please use brass bushings around the screws where you are anchoring your springs, as well as plenty of grease. Otherwise you will bust the springs and they will also creak."

Brass bushings? Never occurred to me - thanks Sokol! Going to see if I can get some. Maybe VKB should include those by default, since they see customers with the same issues!

My Baur BRD-MS3 has arrived! Although all communication went through Google Translate, there were no problems and misunderstandings, and Roman answered all my answers quickly.

A large, sturdy cardboard box, with 7.7 kg of metal! On the top a sticker "Inspected at customs!" - they were apparently baffled by the lack of proper documentation.

The box was well packaged, and it arrived undamaged:

The rudder pedals arrive almost completely assembled:

Contents: rudder pedals BRD-MS3 come with Su-35 style pedals, extra springs for changing resistance (and for spare parts), USB cable, and (a gift by Roman) two more sets of cams with different centre feel! You can also order a pedal stand, but I think it's a bit narrow for these pedals, so I will build my own.

You only have to assemble a couple of things. Installing soft pedal springs, using tape covered pliers (so I didn't scratch the black finish). Springs can be attached on two different heights (for two different spring strengths), and the pedal angle is adjustable too.

Attaching Su-35 pedals. They have to be disassembled first, and fitting locking nuts on the back is a bit fiddly work. I helped myself with a duckt tape covered spanner, so it holds the nut.

All done! Pedals in all of their beauty! You don't need much tools to assemble them, and without taking pictures it's only a couple of minutes work.

Left pedal has quite a rough edge on the left side, I guess a de-burring step has been accidentally omitted on this one. Paint covers it quite thickly, so it's not sharp, but I think paint will wear out sooner here on such a narrow edge.

Front of the cams with the softer spring attached.

Back of the cams with the actual portion that slides over the ball bearings. The surfaces are not finely polished, but I couldn't detect any roughness in movement of the pedals, so I think they are fine enough.

Bottom of the pedals. They come without any cover, so you should take care when handling them before they are attached to the cockpit floor or a stand.

Comparing Saitek Pro Combat and BRD-MS3 rudder pedals.

So, how do they work? I have only tried them for a short time now, crudely attached to a board of MDF. And I can only compare them to Saitek Pro, Saitek Combat Pro and Simped F-16C rudder pedals, the only ones I have used.

BRD-MS3 are heavy, sturdy and strong rudder pedals, but all of the main moving axes have ball bearings, so there is almost no resistance when moving them - apart for the spring resistance. That has it's ups (like an ability to reposition them very quickly) and downs (like an ability to reposition them very quickly) :smilewink:. Pilot-induced oscillations comes to mind! I understand why people try to attach motorcycle steering dampers. I think this is even more crucial with German WW2 F-type of pedals, where your whole foot is on the pedal. With Su-35 style, the heels of your feet are usually on the floor, so you still have some resistance to moving the rudder too easily.

Saiteks and even Simpeds don't have this problem, they have quite a bit of resistance to moving. But they also don't have this smoothness of movement, and the gradually progressive resistance strength of the cam mechanism.

Brake pedals themselves have quite a large range of movement. This is a good thing when you want to be precise with your input, but it poses some difficulties with the placement if you want the rudder to be comfortable in all it's range of movement. By comparison Saiteks have very small range of movement (especially Pro Combat), and Simpeds have a very non-linear brake.

And pedals in DCS? Best rudders I've ever tried, no doubt! But I'm looking at options of damping the movement of rudder. I think I will not go with usual motorcycle steering damper - I understand it has some "slack" with mechanical links, and a bit of a "dead band" when you reverse the movement. The option I'm considering now is making a DIY rotary damper - simple one, just the moving paddle in viscous cup. I have quite a bit of Nyogel 767A, and some less viscous damping fluid, so I will try that.

But first, some more flying with the new precise instrument from Baur!

Niiiiice! Welcome to the club. At least your box looked a lot better upon arrival than min (see first post).

You'll love these things! :thumbup:

Thanks for sharing all those detailed photos and specific impressions! :thumbup:

The BRD-MS3 definitely looks like a great pair of pedals.

As you said, I also really think a damping solution could improve the very low mechanical resistance and help managing/filtering our micro-movements and imperfections. It's the same with a friction-less stick like the VKB Black Mamba Mk.III (cams + ball bearings).

Let us know if you install a custom damping on your pedals!

Just a detail: do you know if Baur used powder coating?

(the granular surfaces shown in your pictures could suggest it's not paint)

Happy flying!

Just a detail: do you know if Baur used powder coating?

(the granular surfaces shown in your pictures could suggest it's not paint)

Yes, assembled units is powder coat. In kit form is unpainted.

Excellent! Thanks for the info Sokol ;)

But first, some more flying with the new precise instrument from Baur!

Thank you! You've done a good review. Everything is spelled correctly :)

At least your box looked a lot better upon arrival than min (see first post).

... In kit form is unpainted.

Now all the parts are painted with powder paint. It is not smooth. This is not to remain traces of the hands and fingers. In addition, this paint is more brutal! :thumbup:

Will BRD-F3 work with TMWH?

I mean that DiectX is able to recognize only 8 axes, and TMWH already has 7. TMWH + BRD-F3 = 10 axes.

Does anybody have successful experience with these devices?

As long as you use the controllers within DirectX limitations, it should be fine.

Afaik the limit is 8 axes and 32 buttons per controller.

I currently have 15 axes (5 controllers) connected to my computer and every one of them are responding correctly (and simultaneously) in DCS.

What a nightmare! What have they done with my box! I understand - the only way to avoid it - send in a wooden box as a weapon !!!

I'm sad. Mail does not accept other special box. Or send two boxes as I suggested.

Maybe it would be better if we make the English translation of my instructions for assembly? In Russia, I sell pedal disassembled.

It's all good. Once I get mine, I'll try and do some English instructions. It should be fun! Though I am away for the next month, so I hope it arrives while I am away, so I'll have something to be excited about on my return to Aus...

Z...

As long as you use the controllers within DirectX limitations, it should be fine.

Afaik the limit is 8 axes and 32 buttons per controller.

 

I currently have 15 axes (5 controllers) connected to my computer and every one of them are responding correctly (and simultaneously) in DCS.

.

Afaik the limit is 8 axes and 32 buttons per controller.

What can limit is the game, some old games - and even modern with "flight things", e.g. BF's - can recognize only 1 controller. No issue for modern flight simulators.

A non updated list there: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3139352/3

My Baur BRD-MS3 has arrived! Although all communication went through Google Translate, there were no problems and misunderstandings, and Roman answered all my answers quickly.

 

A large, sturdy cardboard box, with 7.7 kg of metal! On the top a sticker "Inspected at customs!" - they were apparently baffled by the lack of proper documentation.

 

 

The box was well packaged, and it arrived undamaged:

 

 

The rudder pedals arrive almost completely assembled:

 

 

Contents: rudder pedals BRD-MS3 come with Su-35 style pedals, extra springs for changing resistance (and for spare parts), USB cable, and (a gift by Roman) two more sets of cams with different centre feel! You can also order a pedal stand, but I think it's a bit narrow for these pedals, so I will build my own.

 

 

You only have to assemble a couple of things. Installing soft pedal springs, using tape covered pliers (so I didn't scratch the black finish). Springs can be attached on two different heights (for two different spring strengths), and the pedal angle is adjustable too.

 

 

Attaching Su-35 pedals. They have to be disassembled first, and fitting locking nuts on the back is a bit fiddly work. I helped myself with a duckt tape covered spanner, so it holds the nut.

 

 

All done! Pedals in all of their beauty! You don't need much tools to assemble them, and without taking pictures it's only a couple of minutes work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Left pedal has quite a rough edge on the left side, I guess a de-burring step has been accidentally omitted on this one. Paint covers it quite thickly, so it's not sharp, but I think paint will wear out sooner here on such a narrow edge.

 

 

Front of the cams with the softer spring attached.

 

 

Back of the cams with the actual portion that slides over the ball bearings. The surfaces are not finely polished, but I couldn't detect any roughness in movement of the pedals, so I think they are fine enough.

 

 

Bottom of the pedals. They come without any cover, so you should take care when handling them before they are attached to the cockpit floor or a stand.

 

 

Comparing Saitek Pro Combat and BRD-MS3 rudder pedals.

 

 

 

So, how do they work? I have only tried them for a short time now, crudely attached to a board of MDF. And I can only compare them to Saitek Pro, Saitek Combat Pro and Simped F-16C rudder pedals, the only ones I have used.

 

BRD-MS3 are heavy, sturdy and strong rudder pedals, but all of the main moving axes have ball bearings, so there is almost no resistance when moving them - apart for the spring resistance. That has it's ups (like an ability to reposition them very quickly) and downs (like an ability to reposition them very quickly) :smilewink:. Pilot-induced oscillations comes to mind! I understand why people try to attach motorcycle steering dampers. I think this is even more crucial with German WW2 F-type of pedals, where your whole foot is on the pedal. With Su-35 style, the heels of your feet are usually on the floor, so you still have some resistance to moving the rudder too easily.

 

Saiteks and even Simpeds don't have this problem, they have quite a bit of resistance to moving. But they also don't have this smoothness of movement, and the gradually progressive resistance strength of the cam mechanism.

 

Brake pedals themselves have quite a large range of movement. This is a good thing when you want to be precise with your input, but it poses some difficulties with the placement if you want the rudder to be comfortable in all it's range of movement. By comparison Saiteks have very small range of movement (especially Pro Combat), and Simpeds have a very non-linear brake.

 

And pedals in DCS? Best rudders I've ever tried, no doubt! But I'm looking at options of damping the movement of rudder. I think I will not go with usual motorcycle steering damper - I understand it has some "slack" with mechanical links, and a bit of a "dead band" when you reverse the movement. The option I'm considering now is making a DIY rotary damper - simple one, just the moving paddle in viscous cup. I have quite a bit of Nyogel 767A, and some less viscous damping fluid, so I will try that.

 

 

But first, some more flying with the new precise instrument from Baur!

Man these are great...

I am still trying to decide between these and the Crosswinds...

Leaning more towards the BRD-MS3s coz of the Sukhoi style pedals...

Just want the ones which provide more resistance as you push further...

Anybody who tried both care to contribute their 2 cents?

I think I will not go with usual motorcycle steering damper - I understand it has some "slack" with mechanical links, and a bit of a "dead band" when you reverse the movement. The option I'm considering now is making a DIY rotary damper - simple one, just the moving paddle in viscous cup. I have quite a bit of Nyogel 767A, and some less viscous damping fluid, so I will try that.

Why didn't you just go for F2 model with the included damper?

Anybody who tried both care to contribute their 2 cents?

I have two sets of Baur's pedals. Been using the M2s and recently bought the new F2s. I've used Saitek's before.

Two cents: They're METAL. Crosswinds are plastic. Frankly, Baur has ended my headaches with flight sim controls. They are just THAT GOOD.

I chose BRD-MS3 mainly because of the price - they are 280 USD with shipping to EU, and the F2 have been quoted "380 - 480$, depending on the configuration".

I also did not think that the damper would be necessary before I bought and tried them. After a while I got much more used to the ultra frictionless rudder and I don't have major problems using them, but I'm still thinking about making the damper. I have searched for some advice on designing such damper, but I think I will just have to make it and see if I dimensioned it properly. :)

How to order them? Does it have a center stop? or smooth ? Thank you

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_02_2017/post-4295-0-53879800-1488032647.jpg

How to order them? Does it have a center stop? or smooth ? Thank you

Depends on CAM profile you install - can be "hard" center or "soft" center.

How to order them? Does it have a center stop? or smooth ? Thank you

It has 3 different cams which are easily interchangeable. One of them has a very pronounced center, another has soft center and the third one is smooth. I fly the smooth one. Most other guys that are into aerobatics seem to prefer the smooth one as well.

I chose BRD-MS3 mainly because of the price - they are 280 USD with shipping to EU, and the F2 have been quoted "380 - 480$, depending on the configuration".

 

 

I also did not think that the damper would be necessary before I bought and tried them. After a while I got much more used to the ultra frictionless rudder and I don't have major problems using them, but I'm still thinking about making the damper. I have searched for some advice on designing such damper, but I think I will just have to make it and see if I dimensioned it properly. :)

Yes, I know what you mean. :)