Why so many keys for one action?

I get your point for those switches. There are benefits and disadvantages to both approaches I guess.

 

However, just FYI, you can use a normal switch as you described when you edit your: DCS World\Mods\aircraft\MiG-21BIS\Input\joystick\default.lua

 

For example, you can make the airbrake a one state switch with a line like this:

 

{down=device_commands.Airbrakes,up=device_commands.Airbrakes,cockpit_device_id=devices.AIRBRAKE,value_down=1.0,value_up=0.0,name='Alternate  Airbrakes On',category='Flight Controls'},

If you look through that default.lua you can quickly figure out the commands you want to adjust.

Thanks for this, I actually have it in use by now.

I can't afford a Hotas stick, so I have to make due with the 12 buttons I have. This works OK if I use 2 of them as modifiers, but the Weapon selector knob kind of kills it. Does anybody have a magic code for the input script that produces something similar to "turn weapon selector clockwise" and "turn weapon selector counterclockwise"?

I wondered same thing when I bought Mig-21Bis. But today when I was wondering same thing, it strike to me..... It is for Simulator Cockpits builders so they can easily set switches On/Off position.

Sure it is nice thing, but I would prefer a single button to do the On/Off switch. Like why to spend two buttons to Helmet Visor Up and Down?

Or Air-brakes On and Off?

Many switches could be just one, switch between the positions or dials. Like rotate the hardpoint selector dial Clockwise and Counter-Clockwise.

I have Logitech G940 and from Throttle base 6 of the 8 buttons I have spent just to select hardpoints 1, 2, 3, 4 and then 1-2 and 3-4. (top row 1-4 and bottom left two pairs).

With Su-25A/T and Su-27 or Mi-8 I can just use a button to flip or rotate switches and dials.

The arguments already been made, but I just want to add that there's also the matter of consistency with other modules. In the Ka-50, you only need one key to cycle switches with only 2 or 3 positions like ammo type, burst length, auto/manual modes and whatnot.

On the other hand, I think the hardpoint selector is fine as it is, cycling through 11 positions one by one is harder and I have no other use for the number keys anyway. The radar switch is also a tricky one, I don't want to turn it off cycling from on to standby. Adding the option in addition to the current approach would be good though.

The only "issue" I have is with the IR/SAR switch and the hardpoint selector. Those can cost you your plane in an AA fight. Sometimes you just want to switch fast. But the radar, gear and whatnot is just easy enough for me to do with the mouse.

You won't be touching those switches that often anyway. Well radar maybe but that's the exception.

The only "issue" I have is with the IR/SAR switch and the hardpoint selector. Those can cost you your plane in an AA fight. Sometimes you just want to switch fast. But the radar, gear and whatnot is just easy enough for me to do with the mouse.

You won't be touching those switches that often anyway. Well radar maybe but that's the exception.

Yhea, I'm trying to do almost the same configs that zalu did,but the hardpoint selector it's difficult to set on my HOTAS setup, and it's really annoying to use the mouse everytime that I want to fire a missile.

Leatherneck guys should give us a hand with this matter, but I'm done here too. All I got was a lot of bad rep in my profile.:P

For air to air missiles and IR/SAR modes, I put those on my X-52 Pro. The configuration is a little weird, but how I set it is:

Throttle hat: left = SAR, right = IR

Stick upper hat: left = outer pylons, right = inner pylons

By equiping SAR missiles only on the outer pylons and IR only on the inner pylons (or going pure of course), it's reasonably intuitive. For ground attack I'm stuck using the mouse, but time is less critical there.

problem with pitch control in FC3

dear friends,

any one can help me with my problem?

i don't have any joy steak and with keyboard when i pitch up or down, the pitch will remain in it's position and will not reset automatically. is there any solution for this issue to reset it automatically?

thnx.

dear friends,

any one can help me with my problem?

i don't have any joy steak and with keyboard when i pitch up or down, the pitch will remain in it's position and will not reset automatically. is there any solution for this issue to reset it automatically?

thnx.

nader, you must definitely use a basic joystick to play DCS World and the airplanes and helicopter modules, the only module that you can play without a joystick is Combined Arms with the tanks and other mobile units.

Try to buy one basic Saitek or save a bit more to buy a Saitek HOTAS.:thumbup:

The Thrustmaster T16000 is widely recommended as an entry level stick. Never had one myself, but I've yet to hear a bad thing about them. It's the only stick out there I can say that about, even the $400 warthog has its share of complaints.

I don't quite understand the problem with the gear on the '21. You don't even need a HOTAS set up, just do the key commands... IIRC it's Rctl+= then g then Rctl +rshft and you're done. No biggy! I really like it personally, makes take off's interesting! The avionics are so straight forward in the MiG (to a point) that the actual task of flying the little beast is the main draw for me. Likewise I get bored in the A-10 because the aircraft is so boring to fly for me, the only thing that I like are the avionics which have a manual thicker than the last Yellow Pages I got through the post.

I don't quite understand the problem with the gear on the '21. You don't even need a HOTAS set up, just do the key commands... IIRC it's Rctl+= then g then Rctl +rshft and you're done. No biggy! I really like it personally, makes take off's interesting!

:doh:

Oh PLEASE, not this again .............

(hint: "no thanks" to knots in my fingers, if I want to use keyboard commands, I'd fly FC3 planes)

No script for Mig-21 Weapons selector?

The best I get (no TARGET here) using Xpadder is make the thing rotating only clockwise with one joy button through 1,2... 11 at each press - rinse and repeat.

Or rotate ("irrealistic" :D) only for AA with one button and for AG with other button, but eventually the sequence is broken... specially in wrong moment.

BTW - The real "realistic" virtual pilot HOTAS should be: :D

http://s21.postimg.org/i0zesz4av/TQS_LG.jpg

Unless you can fabricate your own cockpit, the closest thing they can do to making it anything resembling the actual work load of the real life plane is to have as many bindable keys as there are switch positions in the game.

if you don't like the increased workload, you shouldn't try flying a plane with such a workload.

simulators aren't there to babysit you, to hold your hand and slowly walk you through it, or make your life easier in any way, shape or form.

the real plane doesn't have push buttons that do more than one thing, so dcs's shouldn't either.

I use mouse, for most of the controls... apart of the ones that are in the stick. Radar lock on, radar range, wheel breaks (with an axis) fire gun, fire bombs/missiles, automatic pilot on/off, trimming, aerodinamic breaks, and radio buttons. Also I put the gears and flaps, because, taking off and using the mouse is quite dangerous, and it is difficult to stay in the path.

For me the only controls needed on the Hotas are A2A combat related, everything else is easily doable with the mouse. There is no rush to change A2G weapons, adjust gear, select lights etc. using the mouse to do such actions is no bother. The procedures to select the correct A2A mode etc. are simulating how much load is on a real 21 pilot, this is not easily learnt but once done becomes second nature and a big reason why flying an underdog is so rewarding. If ir/sar selector bothers you do what I do and go all IR, R3Rs will probably be neutered in DCS2 anyway as right now they're op :D, plus using them makes you a 120 magnet.

...the real plane doesn't have push buttons that do more than one thing, so dcs's shouldn't either.

Well, I search for a software solution for the weapons selector to make the thing practice, not to made more easy to operate.

The actual 11 keys allow change from AA weapon (e.g position #4) to AG weapon position #9 with just pressing one key, the #9, and go back to # 4 just pressing other key (4).

The weapon selector in cockpit magically jump from 4 to 9.

If the switch can be rotate with one key for + and one for -, is need cycle between 5,6,7,8,9 like the real thing do. ;)

So the "realistic" solution (11 keys) became "unrealistic" - gamey - to operate.

As I say I can rotate the weapon selector with Xpadder, but this soft dont allow rotate the switch counterclockwise, because he always start from lower number and broken the sequence.

And using these soft solutions is need use button/hat/switchs on HOTAS, as they dont recognize the keyboard to map, so I cant move me left hand for reach my "keyboard instrument panel" :) and turn the weapon selector for left of right, like the RL pilot do, I need use some HAT/button on joystick what is not "realistic" for this plane.

BTW - I can cycle the flaps 3 positions up and down with 2 keys or HAT, but I can't press a key/ button for flap takeoff like realistic should be possible. :doh:

This "realistic" argumentation in flight sim games is not ... realistic. :D

Dammed STEAM SS. :mad:

the real plane doesn't have push buttons that do more than one thing, so dcs's shouldn't either.

It works both ways, you don'y fly a MiG with keyboard and mouse. Having a custom button to make selecting switch positions easier is no big deal compared to the loss of fidelity from having a mouse accessible cockpit or unlabeled keyboard controls that require you to press 3 or 4 buttons at once.

I think the only real argument against the option is that it's more coding work for the devs, but then they're supposed to code, so if it's in demand it might be worthwhile to do.

Well for me, with the x-55, i have a 3-way switch for the flaps, and on the toggle switch right next to the flaps, i have gear up and gear down, just use mouse for neutral... but those and any start-up controls are only used before, during or after takeoff and landing, not at all during flight, their not time critical...

as for pylon selection, groms, bombs and a2g rockets generally aren't time critical, you can have them set up and ready to go long before you'll use them, so i just have a2a pylons 1-4 bound to a hat switch...

I like the fact that everything can be mapped, for example; it should be without having 1 button that puts the gear up, waits for it to lock and puts it in neutral for you, because if it did that, it wouldn't be like the real plane where you have to put the gear into the neutral postion yourself...

you could re-map the keyboard to exclude all the startup controls that only get used while your turning on the plane and off, it would open up single key presses so you could use 1 to - for pylon selecton, q, a, and z for gear up, neutral, and down, w, s, x and c for flaps up, combat/takeoff, landing, and neutral, etc...

My goodness. Just use your mouse with the amazing clickable cockpit. The real Mig-21 puts a large workload on the pilot and that is represented in DCS. It is not a HOTAS fighter like an F-16 that affords the pilot the maximum amount of SA.

It works both ways, you don'y fly a MiG with keyboard and mouse. Having a custom button to make selecting switch positions easier is no big deal compared to the loss of fidelity from having a mouse accessible cockpit

Are you actually saying that the fully clickable cockpit is a bad thing? One bit of wisdom I heard from a real pilot was to map controls in a simulator as close as possible to the real thing, otherwise it is negative training. If it's a switch the pilot has to manipulate by moving his hand away from the throttle you leave it that way.

Are you actually saying that the fully clickable cockpit is a bad thing? One bit of wisdom I heard from a real pilot was to map controls in a simulator as close as possible to the real thing, otherwise it is negative training. If it's a switch the pilot has to manipulate by moving his hand away from the throttle you leave it that way.

well the problem with mouse click is... in real life, you don't need to look down to flip a switch, you don't need to drag the switches (left mouse button) around a mousepad in order to select a function for that switch, see... mouse click is a lot more unrealistic than hotas, even in a plane like the mig-21...

but for switches that you never touch while you're flying, it's fine, don't even need them mapped... just map a key to auto start, it saves a lot of frustration, from having to restart the thing again when you die. once you've manually started the mig-21 a few thousand times it does get repetitive...

and if you're going to go so far as to cheat what would be 3 physical actions into 1, you might as well go all the way and just make all the switches for startup into 1...

like for me, it's bad enough that all my radar controls are so close together and on my hotas when their in a pretty unergonomical place in the actual pit...

mouse click is too slow, and takes an unrealistic amount of attention, hotas is too fast, all the buttons are too close together... hotas is more realistic that way, since mouse click isn't just slow, but requires more attention than in the real plane.

and keep in mind... "more realistic" "realistic" and "real" are different things...

I hopefully understand your struggle Sokol1. I didnt start the MiG yet but from time to time I face this challenge of realistically mapping buttons also in other planes/sims. Mostly in WWII planes there is no HOTAS ;)

Does Xpadder work with programmable mouse/gamepad buttons? So instead of non-recognized keyboard you can use mouse/gamepad buttons to operate the switch.

You will have to move your hand away from joy but dont need to point the cursor first to do the action.

Like this one for example, 17 programmable button mouse / 16 (programmable?) buttons gamepad:

A4tech Bloody Commader Laser Core 2

Gamebird JPD-FFB-A

The simple fact of the matter is that the MiG-21Bis was created to model all the systems and controls as accurately as possible.

Why should the fact that it takes several operations to manage undercarriage deployment be an issue? The whole point would be lost if everything was reduced to the lowest common denominator just because some of us are less willing to work properly with all the systems in the aircraft.

A very straightforward remedy for anyone who wants less of a workload in the cockpit is to use programs like Target. Solutions are available, so why is this an issue at all?

It can't be all things to all people, but it is still the most advanced and in-depth simulation of any aircraft of that era, and it will continue to be so for some time to come yet I am certain.

The simple fact of the matter is that the MiG-21Bis was created to model all the systems and controls as accurately as possible.

 

Why should the fact that it takes several operations to manage undercarriage deployment be an issue? The whole point would be lost if everything was reduced to the lowest common denominator just because some of us are less willing to work properly with all the systems in the aircraft.

 

A very straightforward remedy for anyone who wants less of a workload in the cockpit is to use programs like Target. Solutions are available, so why is this an issue at all?

 

It can't be all things to all people, but it is still the most advanced and in-depth simulation of any aircraft of that era, and it will continue to be so for some time to come yet I am certain.

Read the thread again, people refuted your points already. For example, not everyone uses a TM HOTAS Warthog, and even has Target or 3-way switches.

"What are you even complaining about instead of doing a custom script for a 400$ joystick software!"

The simple fact of the matter is that a MiG-21 pilot can use his damn left hand to do this shit and not take his right hand of the stick(*click*click*). Once LN models that I will stop complaining about wepon selector rotary & gear switches.^^

edit: And sorry if my tone is somewhat aggressive but I just reread this topic and some people just pop in here to tell us "you just don't appreciate the realism!" ... that really pisses me off. Either people didn't read this thread or outright ignore the legitimate complains of many users who explained their troubles.

"Grab the Keyboard!" can not be the solution.

So, the rotary weapon selector option to turn it left or right was not added still? I thought it was under consideration a long time ago.

In any case, I'd just like to add that if toggle options are added, the more detailed on/off options should be preserved. E.g. the Ka-50 commands are mostly toggle only and it's terrible since you don't know the current position of the switch except if you move your view and zoom in for a visual check. This is certainly not convenient nor realistic because the real pilot could check the position with his hand if not by a quick glance which is much easier to do in real life.

As i was saying, if you use autostart, or clickable cockpit functionality for all the startup stuff, and stuff you'll rarely, if ever use in combat, the keyboard has more than enough buttons for everything you'll need once your airborne, without modifiers(shift,ctrl,alt)... assuming your joystick has a hat switch and a half a dozen buttons, and then, how is that bad?