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Old 09-07-2017, 08:06 AM   #11
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I think ED have their hands full with the F/A-18 and Caucasus for 2.5 so work on damage models, ai, visibility, ww2 atc, ww2 radio calls will not be a priority.

ED has not shared any info about other WW2 maps being considered, so in my opinion Normandy will be the sole map in the foreseeable future.

We'll get more asset pack content and Normandy map optimizations though.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:52 AM   #12
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Default ED - you are losing us

OK, I will try again and try to avoid rule 1.15 because this is important and deleting a post of this nature only offends a member who is trying to make a point and even warn ED of a problem. I hope ED will not use 1.15 or any other rule to silence a genuine concern. If you don't like what I say please at least leave a post to say why and close the thread and at least we will know where we stand.

My friends and I, like many other simmers, came to ED when you introduced WWII aircraft because of your reputation for high fidelity FMs and your new Edge graphics. Some of us have been with you much longer that that and have bought many models. Generally we were happy with the aircraft and looked forward very much to the Normandy map and the Spitfire in particular but there is now a huge problem for us. We come from many years of, and a variety of, WWII air combat sims. I am sure you will know what those were and are. They set the, now old, standards. Our huge problem with DCS is the state of the current WWII objects, particularly the Normandy map performance hit, the Spitfire LFMkIX handling problems and AI that continue to fly and fight for ten minutes or more when severely damaged to a point where an intelligent pilot would retire or bail out. Damage modelling is very average but we understand the immense amount of work to change that and we can live with it as it is. For those other problems we have been waiting a very long time for some promised updates that 'are being worked on' but with no end in sight and no meaningful word of progress. Meanwhile ED are putting major efforts into other new aircraft like the F/A-18C whilst the products we have paid for, even as early access, stagnate. Our frustration has been growing for months. I'm sure there are many long standing 'cold war' and generation 4/5 players who couldn't care less about older aircraft but the WWII community had high hopes of ED.

Such is their disappointment, some frustrated people are even suggesting that ED has lost interest in the WWII era and aircraft.

Last night I joined my friends online intending to find a MP WWII server or fly one of our Normandy missions with them. To my regret I found that all of them have now, out of frustration, bought another sim and they are not keen to fly in DCS as it stands.The reason I have not done the same is I just don't have the disk space, a problem that can only be resolved if I delete one of the, still, two DCS versions. Also I have invested in a dozen or so DCS models and I have worked hard on missions and campaigns only to see friends now disappearing over the horizon, at least for now. I can only hope they do not find other products too interesting. I know they would return if the problems were resolved before they become too entrenched somewhere else. However after years of MP with my friends I am not going to play on line without them, they are real life friends not just virtual acquaintances. I have to think hard now about going elsewhere.

These are genuine concerns. You really do risk losing many of us. I know of at least one other good-size group of players that feels exactly the same. We have lost patience with the 'being worked on' argument. ED need to give us some kind of official timescale and an outline of what we can expect regarding these problems and deliver what is outstanding.
Please will you do that?
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BIGNEWY View Post
what, you think a 3rd party holds the key to the future of DCS WW2? It does not.

ED are still developing for WW2, more assets / more aircraft / more features are still to come

So whats with the negativity?
Because we don't know whats the state of those things. We just know that ED is "working on them". Will ED develop more aircraft? Will we get some twin-engine bombers? Will we get some dive bombers? Will we get some variety? What is the future?!

Many of us, WW2 simmers, fly since early 2000's and to us 4 fighter planes with some AI units do not make for a very comeplling experience. Even if we get 6 planes it is not good enough. And not to mention that we payed hard earned buck for it. ED has one of the more expensive WW2 experiences and shows lots of flaws and they seem to take forever to be adressed. The DM alone is beeing worked on so long that you could create a full indie game during that time.

For many VEAO was the future of WW2, even if that was undeserved, as they had a great WW2 collection of planes to be developed in the future. We are all waiting for someone to announce some Tempest/Typhoon, Mosquito, P-38, Spit XIV, A-20, Ju-87, Hs-129, Me-410, Fw190A8, Bf109G6. To create some variety in air combat and make it feel alive and more period correct. And that is just for the one Normandy theatre.

I wanted to get all the WW2 planes when they get out, but have put that on hold, because I am not satisfied with the product and I will not invest into something that might not get better soon and seems to have no future planed.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by klem View Post
OK, I will try again and try to avoid rule 1.15 because this is important and deleting a post of this nature only offends a member who is trying to make a point and even warn ED of a problem. I hope ED will not use 1.15 or any other rule to silence a genuine concern. If you don't like what I say please at least leave a post to say why and close the thread and at least we will know where we stand.

My friends and I, like many other simmers, came to ED when you introduced WWII aircraft because of your reputation for high fidelity FMs and your new Edge graphics. Some of us have been with you much longer that that and have bought many models. Generally we were happy with the aircraft and looked forward very much to the Normandy map and the Spitfire in particular but there is now a huge problem for us. We come from many years of, and a variety of, WWII air combat sims. I am sure you will know what those were and are. They set the, now old, standards. Our huge problem with DCS is the state of the current WWII objects, particularly the Normandy map performance hit, the Spitfire LFMkIX handling problems and AI that continue to fly and fight for ten minutes or more when severely damaged to a point where an intelligent pilot would retire or bail out. Damage modelling is very average but we understand the immense amount of work to change that and we can live with it as it is. For those other problems we have been waiting a very long time for some promised updates that 'are being worked on' but with no end in sight and no meaningful word of progress. Meanwhile ED are putting major efforts into other new aircraft like the F/A-18C whilst the products we have paid for, even as early access, stagnate. Our frustration has been growing for months. I'm sure there are many long standing 'cold war' and generation 4/5 players who couldn't care less about older aircraft but the WWII community had high hopes of ED.

Such is their disappointment, some frustrated people are even suggesting that ED has lost interest in the WWII era and aircraft.

Last night I joined my friends online intending to find a MP WWII server or fly one of our Normandy missions with them. To my regret I found that all of them have now, out of frustration, bought another sim and they are not keen to fly in DCS as it stands.The reason I have not done the same is I just don't have the disk space, a problem that can only be resolved if I delete one of the, still, two DCS versions. Also I have invested in a dozen or so DCS models and I have worked hard on missions and campaigns only to see friends now disappearing over the horizon, at least for now. I can only hope they do not find other products too interesting. I know they would return if the problems were resolved before they become too entrenched somewhere else. However after years of MP with my friends I am not going to play on line without them, they are real life friends not just virtual acquaintances. I have to think hard now about going elsewhere.

These are genuine concerns. You really do risk losing many of us. I know of at least one other good-size group of players that feels exactly the same. We have lost patience with the 'being worked on' argument. ED need to give us some kind of official timescale and an outline of what we can expect regarding these problems and deliver what is outstanding.
Please will you do that?


It takes time, it is that simple

ED are still developing and all of the issues you mention will get worked on, but it is not an overnight fix, they have not lost interest and are pumping a lot of man hours into getting these new features \ assets and content out.

Giving timescales is not going to happen, as dates can and do often change, which in turn leads to more frustration.

My personal thoughts are take a break, and come back when you think ED have what you think is acceptable for your game style.
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Last edited by BIGNEWY; 09-07-2017 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Solty View Post
Because we don't know whats the state of those things. We just know that ED is "working on them". Will ED develop more aircraft? Will we get some twin-engine bombers? Will we get some dive bombers? Will we get some variety? What is the future?!

Many of us, WW2 simmers, fly since early 2000's and to us 4 fighter planes with some AI units do not make for a very comeplling experience. Even if we get 6 planes it is not good enough. And not to mention that we payed hard earned buck for it. ED has one of the more expensive WW2 experiences and shows lots of flaws and they seem to take forever to be adressed. The DM alone is beeing worked on so long that you could create a full indie game during that time.

For many VEAO was the future of WW2, even if that was undeserved, as they had a great WW2 collection of planes to be developed in the future. We are all waiting for someone to announce some Tempest/Typhoon, Mosquito, P-38, Spit XIV, A-20, Ju-87, Hs-129, Me-410, Fw190A8, Bf109G6. To create some variety in air combat and make it feel alive and more period correct. And that is just for the one Normandy theatre.

I wanted to get all the WW2 planes when they get out, but have put that on hold, because I am not satisfied with the product and I will not invest into something that might not get better soon and seems to have no future planed.



ED dont release information until it is much closer to the release stage, it is like that for every module not just WW2. Making big lists of aircraft to come is great but a lot can change over time, which is why it has to be this way.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by klem View Post
the Spitfire LFMkIX handling problems
Sry for my ignorance, but what problems are those?
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNEWY View Post
It takes time, it is that simple

ED are still developing and all of the issues you mention will get worked on, but it is not an overnight fix, they have not lost interest and are pumping a lot of man hours into getting these new features \ assets and content out.

Giving timescales is not going to happen, as dates can and do often change, which in turn leads to more frustration.

My personal thoughts are take a break, and come back when you think ED have what you think is acceptable for your game style.
I'm sorry BIGNEWY, I know how difficult software and model development can be but that only tells me there is no project plan, no milestones, etc..

"will get worked on" says they are not being worked on now, at least not seriously, as does "Giving timescales is not going to happen". The community is capable if understanding problems and an insight into what ED are doing is better than obstinate silence. Either way you are going to get flak and have to manage it. Better to keep your customers informed than risk losing them.

" getting these new features \ assets and content out". It is not new assets that frustrate us, it is the current assets that are not working properly that do.

"Taking a break" means clearing disc space or buying yet another drive for some other product while two unused installations just sit there. It isn't going to happen. I have spent enough already. I won't uninstall them because they do have something to offer in quiet moments but not as a WWII online combat sim which is why I bought into DCS WWII.

I do not understand why ED cannot tell us where they are on the Normandy map. As professionals they must have some idea of work and time. I assume they are not just working blindly looking for light at the end of the tunnel (if any). Similarly but separately the Spitfire and then the AI issue.

You are the Community Manager. Do you speak for ED? Do ED even know what we are thinking?
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:36 AM   #18
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+1 Klem
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:46 AM   #19
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+1 Klem


I won't add more for fear of moderation. You can read my thoughts over where you know I lurk
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:50 AM   #20
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I'm sorry BIGNEWY, I know how difficult software and model development can be but that only tells me there is no project plan, no milestones, etc..

"will get worked on" says they are not being worked on now, at least not seriously, as does "Giving timescales is not going to happen". The community is capable if understanding problems and an insight into what ED are doing is better than obstinate silence. Either way you are going to get flak and have to manage it. Better to keep your customers informed than risk losing them.

" getting these new features \ assets and content out". It is not new assets that frustrate us, it is the current assets that are not working properly that do.

"Taking a break" means clearing disc space or buying yet another drive for some other product while two unused installations just sit there. It isn't going to happen. I have spent enough already. I won't uninstall them because they do have something to offer in quiet moments but not as a WWII online combat sim which is why I bought into DCS WWII.

I do not understand why ED cannot tell us where they are on the Normandy map. As professionals they must have some idea of work and time. I assume they are not just working blindly looking for light at the end of the tunnel (if any). Similarly but separately the Spitfire and then the AI issue.

You are the Community Manager. Do you speak for ED? Do ED even know what we are thinking?

I can not change how you feel, if you don't want to believe that ED are working to bring new stuff and fix current issues then nothing I will say will change that, you have made your mind up already.

Understand this, ED have been doing this for many years, only giving info on projects or modules that are closer to release works better than any other way, they have learnt this from experience.

As a community manager and tester I am privileged to have a little more insight to what is going on, I see the hard work long before you guys, obviously due to NDA we can not say anything, so we have to leave it to ED for announcing stuff. We represent and help ED on the forum and make sure the rules are followed, but we are also volunteers and customers who love to fly in the sim like you guys. Sithspawn and I have made many feature request for the WW2 community based on your feedback and our own wishes and experience, so don't think ED don't listen, they do.
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