So I thought I had MK-82 figured out. But confusion is back.

I hare RAZBAM, I love RAZBAM. I am confounded by RAZBAM. What that has changed with MK-82 delivery. THEY ()&(*&(* WILL NOT RELEASE!! No matter what I do. MK-82 Snake Eyes and balutes deliver fine with CCIP. But MK-82 slick CCIP/CCRP will not release. I had it all figured out and working, and now since latest its back to confusion.

OK so I am approaching target with 5500 feet above target. Master Arm ON. BL1 selected. 4 bombs X 50 meters is selected. Radar ON. Go in slight 3 deg dive. Place targeting caret on target point. Hold down BOMB RELEASE until separation. But separation never occurs!!!! GDmit!!!

Why can't this just remain consistent.

I hare RAZBAM, I love RAZBAM. I am confounded by RAZBAM. What that has changed with MK-82 delivery. THEY ()&(*&(* WILL NOT RELEASE!! No matter what I do. MK-82 Snake Eyes and balutes deliver fine with CCIP. But MK-82 slick CCIP/CCRP will not release. I had it all figured out and working, and now since latest its back to confusion.

 

OK so I am approaching target with 5500 feet above target. Master Arm ON. BL1 selected. 4 bombs X 50 meters is selected. Radar ON. Go in slight 3 deg dive. Place targeting caret on target point. Hold down BOMB RELEASE until separation. But separation never occurs!!!! GDmit!!!

 

Why can't this just remain consistent.

you need to designate before pressing the trigger.

It's the magic slave/AG designate command.

No changes here, it has always been like that.

Maybe you find the solution here?: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=245165

I have not tryed it myself yet...

As mentioned above, of course you have to click on a command to designate in CCRP, like in other planes. It's not clear if you did it or not.

If you did, does solution cue appear and go through the FPM in your run ?

A 3 deg dive won't help, way too shallow for CCRP bombing in M2000. Try with at least 25° dive angle from 8000 ft AGL. Wait for the solution cue to appear then start your pull up while pressing and holding Bomb Release. Solution cue will pass through the FPM and bombs will release.

And don't forget to set fuse to 'Inst' or Ret' on PPA, as it's not mentioned in your post :smilewink:

CCRP mode has been designed to be used in a dive-toss trajectory.

Try a dive at 30°, a last target designation above 3000' AGL, and a continuous pull up at 5.5G until bomb release...

The level bombing as described by various manuals is not the way it has been designed to work and will only result in poor accuracy, especially because of a poor target designation and a poor manual lateral guidance until release.

Also note you should designate with the top half of the HUD diamond (not the center pip) as the whole HUD is misaligned by ~7 pixels to the external world i.e. this is why the waypoint "+" appears "below" it's actual position.

Also note you should designate with the top half of the HUD diamond (not the center pip) as the whole HUD is misaligned by ~7 pixels to the external world i.e. this is why the waypoint "+" appears "below" it's actual position.

Wow, if true that's some good info.

Wow, if true that's some good info.

Most HUD's in DCS are accurate for the MK-82, but as the M-2000C HUD is slightly misaligned, the spread of impact points is ~35m 'long' of the target, rather than 'around' it.

This is from an older version of DCS but it is still valid for 2.5.5.41962

I don't think it is as simple as "misaligned by 7-8 pixels".

If you close in to a waypoint in low altitude, at 10Nm where you can see the +, the symbol will look like it's into the ground.

Then, the closer you get, the + is moving up and finally looks like it's on the surface when you are very close.

So the problem is more likely compensation of RADAR/ HUD distance for parallax.

Ok,i guess this misaligned HUD problem its a known bug, its on the roadmap to review this and the other A/G deliverys problem on the M2K like the autorelase bug on INS bombing?

I don't think it is as simple as "misaligned by 7-8 pixels".

 

If you close in to a waypoint in low altitude, at 10Nm where you can see the +, the symbol will look like it's into the ground.

Then, the closer you get, the + is moving up and finally looks like it's on the surface when you are very close.

 

So the problem is more likely compensation of RADAR/ HUD distance for parallax.

No, in the case of the waypoint "+", the waypoint's 'real' position is approx at the bottom of the the top "tick".

If you notice the bottom of the top Mirage "tick" stays near the waypoint/vehicle,

... the "+" isn't moving closer to the waypoint, it is just misplaced.

You can examine the AV-8B HUD and M-2000C VTH .lua code - although the code isn't exactly the same, the underlying maths/logic is.

I've fixed the misaligned waypoint "+" by editing the base position of the drawn VTH i.e. the VTH is just another display/MFD as far as DCS is concerned.

Each VTH mode/page has it's own .lua in "DCS World\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Cockpit\VTH"

-------PAGE IDs-------
PAGE_0		= 0	-- NAV
PAGE_1		= 1	-- AA
PAGE_2		= 2	-- AG
PAGE_3		= 3	-- STANDBY
PAGE_4		= 4	-- NAV: APPROACH
PAGE_5		= 5	-- AA POL
PAGE_6		= 6	-- AG CCRP

... and are aligned with each other, unfortunately some elements seem to have hard coded positions/vectors, so in fixing the NAV page, I've still to adjust the CCRP page and perhaps others, so they align with the 3D world.

Ok,i guess this misaligned HUD problem its a known bug, its on the roadmap to review this and the other A/G deliverys problem on the M2K like the autorelase bug on INS bombing?

TL;DR:

AFAIK it's not an acknowledged bug, players just learn't to designate using the top 3rd of the diamond.

Detail/Comment

I first came across designation problems when dropping GBU-12's which don't have a good ballistic path in DCS at the best of times (they tend to glide/go long) and compared to them, the MK-82 accuracy (30-40m "long") is very good.

It didn't help that the waypoint (often co-located with the target) was always "off", eventually I moved onto another module and only revisited the M-2000C when I wanted to cover A2A interception/TWS.

By the time there was forum discussion of HUD parallax, I had enough experience with the Harrier and M-2000C to do a comparison.

As nothing appears to be happening, I recently decided to compare the Harrier HUD and Mirage VTH .lua files to see why one "worked" (with complaints of it being too accurate) and the other didn't.

If I come up with a working solution that is somewhat complete, I will share it but I'd much prefer Razbam did a proper fix (as I run a mostly vanilla install for MP compatibility).

I do designate with TARGET LOCK. As soon as I do I get the diamond and a big X across HUD. Figuring I am too low for safe release. But I get that at any altitude. I though maybe, radar altimeter is interfering with radar for slant range, but no.

Snakeeye, balute retarded MK-82, and Beluga, all deliver good, with good release. But mk-82 slicks. oi-vey!

I do designate with TARGET LOCK. As soon as I do I get the diamond and a big X across HUD. Figuring I am too low for safe release. But I get that at any altitude. I though maybe, radar altimeter is interfering with radar for slant range, but no.

 

Snakeeye, balute retarded MK-82, and Beluga, all deliver good, with good release. But mk-82 slicks. oi-vey!

What's your speed ? There is a minimum and maximum value to be able to drop the bombs.

I do designate with TARGET LOCK. As soon as I do I get the diamond and a big X across HUD. Figuring I am too low for safe release. But I get that at any altitude. I though maybe, radar altimeter is interfering with radar for slant range, but no.

 

Snakeeye, balute retarded MK-82, and Beluga, all deliver good, with good release. But mk-82 slicks. oi-vey!

You want to be rolling in for a 25° dive, so as 15,000 ft = 2.5 NM, rolling in @5 NM (twice your height) works well.

• Placing a waypoint near your intended target will give you the range on the HSI (learning the cockpit "picture" also works).

• Fly at 360 KIAS @15,000 ft and turn towards the target at 8-10 NM.

• Fly a ~10° offset to the target area so you have visual on the target area and it follows the cockpit "dash" to the right hand corner of the canopy frame.

• At 5 NM, put the throttle to idle, roll 120° and pull to place the target designator ("diamond") below the target and roll wings level.

• When stable, allow the "diamond" to drift up - as the top half passes over the target, designate (the designated position is at the bottom of the top 'tick').

• Smoothly pull up while holding the release consent (trigger) until the bomb auto-releases @~4000ft AGL.

• Increase the throttle and pull to the horizon.

• If quick, setting the Autopilot/altitude hold will allow you use F6 to watch the bomb's impact.

A later/lower designation/weapon release altitude, improves accuracy - after wings level, you are looking to eventually designate in 3 sec and release 5 sec later to minimise exposure to enemy fire.

As this is a training profile, it starts higher and you have ~20 seconds to designate/auto-release.

Although for the F-18C, this is a similar profile

@DmitriKozlowsky, here is an example of me flying the suggested Mk-82 CCRP release profile.

Unfortunately I forgot to turn on the Radar Altimeter (hence the flashing RS) but it shouldn't have effected accuracy as it's a backup for the main radar's ground ranging.

If you need further help, an example track or video would be helpful.

A good way to know it's time to dive is when you feel that the desired target is "under your feet". You'll have then a 30° dive.

For the escape, don't hesitate to pull at 5.5G. Make a last designation at 4000' AGL in order to stay above 3000' (frag).

I do designate with TARGET LOCK.

You are likely not using the right command, it's not the same button as the one to lock a air target.

It's called "AG designate" IIRC.

This thread is incredibly informative. Thanks gentlemen!

@DmitriKozlowsky, here is an example of me flying the suggested Mk-82 CCRP release profile.

 

 

Unfortunately I forgot to turn on the Radar Altimeter (hence the flashing RS) but it shouldn't have effected accuracy as it's a backup for the main radar's ground ranging.

 

If you need further help, an example track or video would be helpful.

:thumbup:

Where did you find this practice target please ?

Here you go. This is an element of the 476th Range Targets Package.

Here you go. This is an element of the 476th Range Targets Package.

Thanks :thumbup: