My two cents

Hi all!

I watched the last video and read the last update about "our" project on the KS page and something really puzzles me.

Nice video, nice people and nice... DCS World in game footage, again. I went back a little bit to check the update history and let me summarize, we have seen so far, screenshots from DCS world, terrain screenshots from a commercial product demonstration and like 3 screenshots from in game with of course P-51s. And lots of footage about people telling things about DCS what hardcore fans know in all depths and the casual gamer will not really be interested in.

The flight sim community is a weathered, well educated group and nobody's going to jump out from his/her pants if you don't show the skeleton in the cupboard. And assuming that the alpha access delivery is correct on the KS page and knowing how much time it takes to develop dcs fidelity aircraft I hope and believe you have it there.

The blanket labeled "in very early stage" can cover the project from being shown, but it suffocates the hype that can be drawn around a project like this. Show us at least an external model of a spitfire, a thunderbolt or stg. and we will be excited and we would be able to create more hype.

These are just my two cents about it, correct me if I was wrong somewhere, and if course I'm curious about the community's opinion.

Cheers

Are you sure this is the last update?

Hi all!

 

These are just my two cents about it, correct me if I was wrong somewhere, and if course I'm curious about the community's opinion.

 

Cheers

I am with you on every point there...

The blanket labeled "in very early stage" can cover the project from being shown, but it suffocates the hype that can be drawn around a project like this. Show us at least an external model of a spitfire, a thunderbolt or stg. and we will be excited and we would be able to create more hype.

It's a kickstarter for a project that is "in very early stage" of development. The latest video showed external models for the P-51D and Fw-190 as well as the Fw-190's cockpit fully modeled and textured and the two planes in a dogfight. It also went into extreme depth about how they'll be modeling the Fw-190, Spitfire and how the AFM allows them to be very accurate about their aircraft.

This is much more interesting to me than an external model. Judging on the existing external models for, yes, the P-51D as well as Fw-190 and the other aircraft in DCS World the I'm pretty sure the external models are the least of our worries. Even the low fidelity aircraft have great looking external models and beautifully modeled 6-DOF cockpits.

The in-depth discussion about flight model tuning and how they go about making sure the aircraft feel right and how they use real world specs and then tune them to make them just right in a simulated environment taking into account weather, temperature, and modeling things down to the freaking battery level is exactly what should be interesting people. Not an external model which we already know will look great based on the huge amount of existing external plane models.

The only thing I'm looking for is more information regarding EDGE. The tech demo videos of the commercial sim that have been posted elsewhere in this forum look awesome, but more detail about the technical aspects of the new rendering engine would be welcome (is it multicore? will it take advantage of GPU processing? PhysX? SLi/Crossfire? How is performance compared to the current rendering engine? etc, etc).

It doesn't *really* concern me that much, though it would be awesome to know the answers regarding EDGE. I have no doubt the planes will be incredible, based on the evidence demonstrated by all of the other existing DCS modules.

RRG may be the studio behind DCS WWII 1944 but it seems like they're subcontracting a lot of talent from Eagle Dynamics (or indeed using their partnership with ED to their advantage) so I have no reason to expect anything less than the highest fidelity that we've already come to appreciate in DCS World.

I would have started the kickstarter campaign with a video of a low level attack on a column of trucks being bombed, rocketed and strafed by P-51s that then get bounced by Doras. With heavy post processing in winter time.

If I'm right, I saw a screenshot of B-17s in DCS? After gettting permission to use these from the makers, next one would have been a video of B-17s dropping their payload and then being attacked by Doras and defended by P-51s at very high altitude over Georgia.

Then the team meet and tech talk.

You are correct about pictures posted of the B-17

( Last Screenshot done by " SithSpawn " )

This version of the B-17 Flying Fortress was being worked on by " Luckybob9 & SithSpawn " and since RRG has announced their plans to add a B-17 this project was put on hold, during this time will be working on two other addon projects..I know you will like to see..

Also a video is currently being done with, payload dropping and escorts..should be done by this weekend..and as I am still relatively new at making video's I only hope you won't be disapointed..

Cheers

VTA-Double_D

Edited by adding some new pic's

As you notice I left the bottom info bar on so everyone knows this is thru DCS-World..

 

If I'm right, I saw a screenshot of B-17s in DCS? After gettting permission to use these from the makers, next one would have been a video of B-17s dropping their payload and then being attacked by Doras and defended by P-51s at very high altitude over Georgia.

 

Then the team meet and tech talk.

This is much more interesting to me than an external model. Judging on the existing external models for, yes, the P-51D as well as Fw-190 and the other aircraft in DCS World the I'm pretty sure the external models are the least of our worries. Even the low fidelity aircraft have great looking external models and beautifully modeled 6-DOF cockpits.

 

...

 

The only thing I'm looking for is more information regarding EDGE. The tech demo videos of the commercial sim that have been posted elsewhere in this forum look awesome, but more detail about the technical aspects of the new rendering engine would be welcome (is it multicore? will it take advantage of GPU processing? PhysX? SLi/Crossfire? How is performance compared to the current rendering engine? etc, etc).

Your concerns are absolutely the same as mine, I mentioned the external modell for the hype factor because if somebody flls in for the street dressed with less enthusiasms and expectance towards the in depth phisycs of the control surfaces and alike, the poor being is not going to put money inside without some "eye candy".

And I agreed with the other thing as well, we still didn't see EDGE in action, apart from this set of videos (with foggy origins) of a commercial simulator. I am some what of a technical person, so I'd like to see a feature list, some benchmarks and if the above mentioned videos are really from EDGE, the early stage of development is no longer an excuse...

the early stge of development is no longer an excuse...

Why isn't it an excuse? I don't think they've even collected our money yet from KS.

I appreciate that the DCS community is skeptical. That is a good thing. I think it would be reasonable to see an EDGE video with a P-51 in late October or November. If it's not ready yet then they can't make it happen by magic.

I would have started the kickstarter campaign with a video of a low level attack on a column of trucks being bombed, rocketed and strafed by P-51s that then get bounced by Doras. With heavy post processing in winter time.

And imagine where the pledges would be now if they started with B-17s escorted by e.g Spitfires above the Normandian shores until... a group of BF-109s show up and the battle begun :)

Why isn't it an excuse? I don't think they've even collected our money yet from KS.

 

I appreciate that the DCS community is skeptical. That is a good thing. I think it would be reasonable to see an EDGE video with a P-51 in late October or November. If it's not ready yet then they can't make it happen by magic.

Why are we being kept in the dark about EDGE if the engine itself is ready to rock? Even those videos which the KS page have some screenshots from are sniped and posted by some forum members, it was never posted officially like "here you go, EDGE in action".

Of course I don't expect full featured terrain and airplane videos just some more info related uniquely to DCSWWII not DCS World.

(let me be a little black hearted: Star Citizen currently have 20m...they didn't start with freelancer screenshots :P )

(let me be a little black hearted: Star Citizen currently have 20m...they didn't start with freelancer screenshots :P )

Yes, and they got much of it by actually preselliing game content.

Yes, and they got much of it by actually preselliing game content.

I could be wrong but it did appear that alot of the Mustang ScreenShot's were originally from DCS while they promoted the DCS P-51D Mustang..

If so, I think this is a bit wrong using someone else's work to promote what you are looking to achieve, but still I will fully participate once I start seeing more progress in model developement...:music_whistling:

For now it appears to be only " Smoke and Mirror's "

Christ guys. Has it not occurred to you that the 3d models have not even been completed yet? let alone converted for import into DCS: World?

Or maybe that legally Luthier cannot yet show aspects of he game thanks to Non-Disclosure Agreements?

You had your Kickstarter brief - if you made your pledge, then you made it based on the information given to you right up until the moment you committed and hit that 'OK' button - but that was your choice. I don't see anywhere that it ties Luthier into updates that break NDAs or magical forms of back-from-the-future-updates showing you what isn't even completed yet. Grow some bloody patience and a side order of manners to boot.

The Entitlement disease is rife round here - it's like watching a bunch of spoilt kids.

I could be wrong but it did appear that alot of the Mustang ScreenShot's were originally from DCS while they promoted the DCS P-51D Mustang..

 

If so, I think this is a bit wrong using someone else's work to promote what you are looking to achieve, but still I will fully participate once I start seeing more progress in model developement...:music_whistling:

 

For now it appears to be only " Smoke and Mirror's "

First, they will be using the Mustang in their product so those images do represent part of what will be included in the game.

Second, what has any of that to do with my response to Jeesus Star Citizen comment?

I'm sure the aircraft will be fine. It's Edge that bothers me, we have no idea of it's capabilities. One small map? If we get a map sdk it could be good, otherwise are we looking at little maps released every 1 or 2 years?

I could be wrong but it did appear that alot of the Mustang ScreenShot's were originally from DCS while they promoted the DCS P-51D Mustang..

 

If so, I think this is a bit wrong using someone else's work to promote what you are looking to achieve, but still I will fully participate once I start seeing more progress in model developement...:music_whistling:

 

For now it appears to be only " Smoke and Mirror's "

I think you need to realise where they're at in the stage of development. For example with BOS the dev blogs started back in Dec '12 and we didn't see basically anything for 3 months after that and it was 6 months before we saw a brief clip of a plane flying.

The DCS P51 is indicative of what you're going to get with WW2 as everything in WW2 will have to pass the same quality control standards that the P51 did and as such is a perfectly legitimate thing to showcase. Calling it smoke and mirrors is a bit silly.

Christ guys. Has it not occurred to you that the 3d models have not even been completed yet? let alone converted for import into DCS: World?

 

Or maybe that legally Luthier cannot yet show aspects of he game thanks to Non-Disclosure Agreements?

 

You had your Kickstarter brief - if you made your pledge, then you made it based on the information given to you right up until the moment you committed and hit that 'OK' button - but that was your choice. I don't see anywhere that it ties Luthier into updates that break NDAs or magical forms of back-from-the-future-updates showing you what isn't even completed yet. Grow some bloody patience and a side order of manners to boot.

 

The Entitlement disease is rife round here - it's like watching a bunch of spoilt kids.

Yeah, thanks god that KS is not the stock exchange, otherwise we would all get fired by now. Making investment based on faith :music_whistling:

No seriously, I only asked for straight forward info about the engine, which should be figured out by now (if not than the trouble is big). Believe me I'm pretty good at the waiting game (khm...F/A 18C...)

I think you need to realise where they're at in the stage of development. For example with BOS the dev blogs started back in Dec '12 and we didn't see basically anything for 3 months after that and it was 6 months before we saw a brief clip of a plane flying.

 

The DCS P51 is indicative of what you're going to get with WW2 as everything in WW2 will have to pass the same quality control standards that the P51 did and as such is a perfectly legitimate thing to showcase. Calling it smoke and mirrors is a bit silly.

But for a KS project you should have something in your pocket that you can build up the campaign on (e.g. Oculus Rift -> working prototype -> KS for mass production) and I think there is, just need to let us see :)

Hey, look I didn't miss the message that the P-51D will be incorporated into this..just saying would be better even to see a wireframe of something in the works..

I think you need to realise where they're at in the stage of development. For example with BOS the dev blogs started back in Dec '12 and we didn't see basically anything for 3 months after that and it was 6 months before we saw a brief clip of a plane flying.

 

The DCS P51 is indicative of what you're going to get with WW2 as everything in WW2 will have to pass the same quality control standards that the P51 did and as such is a perfectly legitimate thing to showcase. Calling it smoke and mirrors is a bit silly.

Hey, look I didn't miss the message that the P-51D will be incorporated into this..just saying would be better even to see a wireframe of something in the works..

First, they will be using the Mustang in their product so those images do represent part of what will be included in the game.

 

Second, what has any of that to do with my response to Jeesus Star Citizen comment?

Hey, look I didn't miss the message that the P-51D will be incorporated into this..just saying would be better even to see a wireframe of something in the works..

Are you really that suspicious? you think that somehow Luthiers involvement in this has suddenly corrupted the whole DCS venture and we are being sold a giant lie?

No problem my nerves are calm..just curious..and I respect " Yo-Yo " " Yourself " and all the other talented members here...

:thumbup:

Luthier stated at the start that he was initiating the kickstarter probably 6 months earlier than he should, so that things to show us are not available right now. The P-51D makes sense because that is the benchmark for all WWII fighters to come, as stated by Luthier. The fact that you have people like Yo-Yo overseeing some of this stuff should really calm your nerves.

 

That said, there are some talented people in this community that could have helped him with his videos, which content aside, are little rough...

Luthier stated at the start that he was initiating the kickstarter probably 6 months earlier than he should, so that things to show us are not available right now.

The thing I find weird about that is that Luthier has also stated that the Kickstarter funding is just to cover an extended Beta period and polishing. If that's actually true (and I assume it must be since $100k is a very small sum in games development), then why start the Kickstarter so early?

I'm not suggesting that there's anything sinister about it - it just doesn't seem to line up with the statement.

More Pictures of the fine work Luckybob9 & SithSpawn did with the B17

Another test run of the mission...