New to VR, have a couple of questions.

SO I decided to take the plunge and get myself a rift with my new system build. Specs are as follows for easy troubleshooting (hopefully)

Asus Maximus X Code Motherboard

I7-8700K Processor

GSkill Trident 32gb ram

Asus ROG Strix 1080TI OC 11Gb card

Samsung m.2 drive boot/DCS only

So, here are the questions.

1. When I look at my wings and do any type of fast rolls it looks as though some parts of it, especially the wingtips, are leaving a trail... Remember the mouse trails back in the day that we all thought was cool? Well, it's not so cool in VR. If this is supposed to be that way OK but I don't see why it would be.

2. I understand the FPS limiter of the oculus (asw?) locks it to 45 FPS even on beefy systems.. Ok, no problem it looks smooth to me at 45.. But when I turn it off I don't get the problem mentioned in question #1. But my framerates go straight to hell and it's unplayable.

3. While I don't specifically need glasses for VR I do wear them as I am nearsighted with astigmatism, and it does help a bit. anyone have any suggestion for that? Cuz its a pain to wear them in the VR and if there is some magic solution that I can throw money at I may do that lol.

With my particular system, what is the recommended solution for these problems, if any?

Try https://vr-lens-lab.com/product/vr-frames-virtual-reality-glasses/

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Or these https://vroptician.com

I have , are really nice.

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SO I decided to take the plunge and get myself a rift with my new system build. Specs are as follows for easy troubleshooting (hopefully)

 

Asus Maximus X Code Motherboard

I7-8700K Processor

GSkill Trident 32gb ram

Asus ROG Strix 1080TI OC 11Gb card

Samsung m.2 drive boot/DCS only

 

 

 

So, here are the questions.

 

1. When I look at my wings and do any type of fast rolls it looks as though some parts of it, especially the wingtips, are leaving a trail... Remember the mouse trails back in the day that we all thought was cool? Well, it's not so cool in VR. If this is supposed to be that way OK but I don't see why it would be.

 

2. I understand the FPS limiter of the oculus (asw?) locks it to 45 FPS even on beefy systems.. Ok, no problem it looks smooth to me at 45.. But when I turn it off I don't get the problem mentioned in question #1. But my framerates go straight to hell and it's unplayable.

 

3. While I don't specifically need glasses for VR I do wear them as I am nearsighted with astigmatism, and it does help a bit. anyone have any suggestion for that? Cuz its a pain to wear them in the VR and if there is some magic solution that I can throw money at I may do that lol.

 

With my particular system, what is the recommended solution for these problems, if any?

Welcome to VR! ok couple of things that may help. There is a bit more info people would need to BEST help you, but I'll do so based on the assumption you are running the Open Beta.

In general, if you are on the Open Beta you are using deferred shading. Without providing a small essay on the civil war going on with that, suffice to say you will get the most mileage turning *OFF* MSAA and bumping the Pixel Density to compensate.

Your system is like mine, but you have a 1080ti where I do not so I can at least confirm you can find an acceptable setting to play :) Having good settings for VR is paramount to any further discussion because if you aren't at least in the ballpark with the "critical" settings like MSAA, shadows and PD it's impossible to diagnose. Addressing your questions -

1. No, this is sort of an indication that ASW needs to be kicking in (if it isn't). Others may disagree, but at least with the Open beta you are going to need ASW. ASW is actually a great thing, especially for cockpit based games so don't look at this as you're missing out on something. One thing I recently figured out, is that Oculus has hotkeys built in CTRL+Num1,2,3,4 that toggle the status. A lot of profiles or even default keyboard bindings (think, view controls) fire these which can inadvertently drop you out of ASW.

When I can verify (via debug tool) my ASW is on, the trailing you speak of is gone.

2. I'll quickly explain ASW, which may help understand why this is. In general you need a stable 90fps to avoid jerks/jitters or anything else that could make you sick in VR. ASW is what Oculus calls their solution, steam calls it Asynchronous re-projection but the technique is roughly the same. If you've ever seen the "soap opera effect" on a TV it's kind of similar to what ASW does. In essence it very quickly adds in artificial frames to give the perception of a smooth (90fps) experience. That is why you see a 45fps reading but it looks like it's 90. Obviously, this has to happen pretty quick and if you are constantly bouncing between on/off it can still create the problem it's trying to solve. By locking it to 45fps (which sounds terrible) it allows a smoother ASW experience.

ASW can solve certain visual glitches along with making sure you don't puke, so it is a good thing :)

Since I can't speak so much on #3 hopefully more detail w/ 1 and 2 helped out :) I'll end with two things you didn't ask but will inevitably end up wondering about when you go down this rabbit hole. Pixel density / PD / SS / super sampling and IPD distance.

First, IPD is important to making sure you're getting the best visual you can get. Spoiler alert, you're probably going to be underwhelmed. That is one of the biggest pain points in VR right now is readable text and small detail (like instruments). That is why some of the community has their pitchforks out over the whole deferred shading thing. Oculus has a great little test to make sure you have both your headset seated and IPD set correctly. It's in their menu and is basically a green crosshair, you move IPD to see the vertical and the HMD itself to get the horizontal clear. If your eyes hurt while using your rift, there is a good chance your IPD is off.

Now, the pixel density / PD / SS / super sampling piece. I included all those variations because they are talking about the same thing. Depending on your googling skills, a lot of older write ups refer to doing this at the Steam/Oculus level, usually that isn't required anymore but is always an option. IMHO it's dealers choice where you choose to tweak the setting, I prefer using each app's own setting but others don't. The crucial thing is **NOT DOUBLING IT UP**.

For brevity I'll use PD from here on out since that is what it is in DCS. if you want to skip the details, I'd recommend at minimum a setting of 1.5 for your system with MSAA OFF. You can likely push this higher, but start there. here is what it does. Since your HMD has a set resolution, the only way to push that "higher" is to render the scene in a higher resolution and than downsample it. It's a lot like if someone sent you a screenshot of an 8k image to view on your smartphone. Obviously, your phone isn't 8k, yet you can still kind of appreciate the detail/resolution of something your device can't physically show. While that isn't a technical explanation, it should metaphorically make sense.

They key takeaway here is understanding that this particular setting has a HUGE impact on performance, and is not incremental in cost. if you need an easy way to think about it, if you've ever bought a diamond it's pretty similar, like a half carat isn't half the cost of a full carat.

Hope that helps. As a side note, if your using the stable branch and want to play with MSAA, make sure deferred shading is off and HDR is on.

Thank you for the advice guys I'll definitely start messing with it some more. For me, I was one of the biggest naysayers on VR in my Air Wing but decided to disavow it properly by trying it with my new system build. Fully prepared to take it back, I was blown away by it even with a slight quality degradation it was still amazing. I think I may have stumbled on the proper setting to get rid of that ghosting so thank you very much!

I actually turned ASW off with a 3rd party tool to fix the ghosting issue and it seems to have worked. I could never determine whether it was on/off but now that you told me about the debug tool I'll be using that more

Thanks, guys!

Welcome to VR! ok couple of things that may help. There is a bit more info people would need to BEST help you, but I'll do so based on the assumption you are running the Open Beta.

 

is a great video on the settings, while it's a bit old in terms of the HDR/Deferred Shading toggle most of it remains true.

 

In general, if you are on the Open Beta you are using deferred shading. Without providing a small essay on the civil war going on with that, suffice to say you will get the most mileage turning *OFF* MSAA and bumping the Pixel Density to compensate.

 

Your system is like mine, but you have a 1080ti where I do not so I can at least confirm you can find an acceptable setting to play :) Having good settings for VR is paramount to any further discussion because if you aren't at least in the ballpark with the "critical" settings like MSAA, shadows and PD it's impossible to diagnose. Addressing your questions -

 

1. No, this is sort of an indication that ASW needs to be kicking in (if it isn't). Others may disagree, but at least with the Open beta you are going to need ASW. ASW is actually a great thing, especially for cockpit based games so don't look at this as you're missing out on something. One thing I recently figured out, is that Oculus has hotkeys built in CTRL+Num1,2,3,4 that toggle the status. A lot of profiles or even default keyboard bindings (think, view controls) fire these which can inadvertently drop you out of ASW.

 

When I can verify (via debug tool) my ASW is on, the trailing you speak of is gone.

 

2. I'll quickly explain ASW, which may help understand why this is. In general you need a stable 90fps to avoid jerks/jitters or anything else that could make you sick in VR. ASW is what Oculus calls their solution, steam calls it Asynchronous re-projection but the technique is roughly the same. If you've ever seen the "soap opera effect" on a TV it's kind of similar to what ASW does. In essence it very quickly adds in artificial frames to give the perception of a smooth (90fps) experience. That is why you see a 45fps reading but it looks like it's 90. Obviously, this has to happen pretty quick and if you are constantly bouncing between on/off it can still create the problem it's trying to solve. By locking it to 45fps (which sounds terrible) it allows a smoother ASW experience.

 

ASW can solve certain visual glitches along with making sure you don't puke, so it is a good thing :)

 

Since I can't speak so much on #3 hopefully more detail w/ 1 and 2 helped out :) I'll end with two things you didn't ask but will inevitably end up wondering about when you go down this rabbit hole. Pixel density / PD / SS / super sampling and IPD distance.

 

First, IPD is important to making sure you're getting the best visual you can get. Spoiler alert, you're probably going to be underwhelmed. That is one of the biggest pain points in VR right now is readable text and small detail (like instruments). That is why some of the community has their pitchforks out over the whole deferred shading thing. Oculus has a great little test to make sure you have both your headset seated and IPD set correctly. It's in their menu and is basically a green crosshair, you move IPD to see the vertical and the HMD itself to get the horizontal clear. If your eyes hurt while using your rift, there is a good chance your IPD is off.

 

Now, the pixel density / PD / SS / super sampling piece. I included all those variations because they are talking about the same thing. Depending on your googling skills, a lot of older write ups refer to doing this at the Steam/Oculus level, usually that isn't required anymore but is always an option. IMHO it's dealers choice where you choose to tweak the setting, I prefer using each app's own setting but others don't. The crucial thing is **NOT DOUBLING IT UP**.

 

For brevity I'll use PD from here on out since that is what it is in DCS. if you want to skip the details, I'd recommend at minimum a setting of 1.5 for your system with MSAA OFF. You can likely push this higher, but start there. here is what it does. Since your HMD has a set resolution, the only way to push that "higher" is to render the scene in a higher resolution and than downsample it. It's a lot like if someone sent you a screenshot of an 8k image to view on your smartphone. Obviously, your phone isn't 8k, yet you can still kind of appreciate the detail/resolution of something your device can't physically show. While that isn't a technical explanation, it should metaphorically make sense.

 

They key takeaway here is understanding that this particular setting has a HUGE impact on performance, and is not incremental in cost. if you need an easy way to think about it, if you've ever bought a diamond it's pretty similar, like a half carat isn't half the cost of a full carat.

 

Hope that helps. As a side note, if your using the stable branch and want to play with MSAA, make sure deferred shading is off and HDR is on.

Amazing, Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me in detail !

I have a very similar system to yours and get"Judder" (I believe that's the correct term for what you're describing } when I have MSAA On,It's a FPS Killer in VR

Amazing, Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me in detail !

Of course, out of curiosity what 3rd party tool are you referring to? Two reasons, one being if it's something cool I don't know about I want to try it! Secondly, I want to make sure I was understanding your issue.

(BTW Are you on the beta or stable?)

I realize you might be talking about using the Steam version and "Advanced Settings" as the standalone tool? If so that might actually be something worth reporting. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but suffice to say Oculus's ASW is distinctly better than then Steam Async Reprojection. So I'm wondering if by disabling the Steam reprojection you are actually "clearing" the way for Oculus to do its thing. Again, this is contingent upon you being on the beta branch and leveraging at some level Steam, or SteamVR to play. I am a dork, so I own both a Vive and Rift. Now that you mention it I remember playing on my Vive and having something very similar happen and needing to disable Async Reprojection.

I play on the standalone version that doesn't appear to leverage steam directly. But now some things are clicking into place with this. I previously reported what I thought to be a forced vsync with beta. But if it was sort of forcing the SteamVR API on us, that would make sense as it would indicate Async reprojection (which does suck) was enabled. Interesting...

I have the VR-LENS inserts *and* the goggles. But I may end up ordering the VROPTICIAN one. Goggle is OK, but it does sit close to your eyes. I too am near sighted, have astigmatism and it helps to wear the goggles in VR.

I'm guessing the third party tools is the Oculus Tray Tool?

Thank you for the advice guys I'll definitely start messing with it some more. For me, I was one of the biggest naysayers on VR in my Air Wing but decided to disavow it properly by trying it with my new system build. Fully prepared to take it back, I was blown away by it even with a slight quality degradation it was still amazing. I think I may have stumbled on the proper setting to get rid of that ghosting so thank you very much!

 

I actually turned ASW off with a 3rd party tool to fix the ghosting issue and it seems to have worked. I could never determine whether it was on/off but now that you told me about the debug tool I'll be using that more

 

Thanks, guys!

Same here, I always have ASW off and still get smooth performance even on my rig.

I use the Oculus Tray Tool with a profile for DCS to turn it off.

Hey Guys, I have found, in over a week's worth of tinkering, that I am able to get really good FPS now with the settings I have come up with. Turning off ASW with the Oculus Tray Tool is an absolute must. While other VR games need that. DCS apparently hates it. ASW adds frames where it isn't needed causing that nasty ghosting or judder or whatever you want to call it.

What I also found is absolutely disabling ALL anti-aliasing in the sim and forcing it through the Nvidia Control Panel works best for me. I get a great mix of quality/fps. Currently, I get 60 on the ground (30 per eye) and 90 in the air (45 per eye). This is with every DCS setting turned to maximum including the sliders. and a PD of 2.0

Hey Guys, I have found, in over a week's worth of tinkering, that I am able to get really good FPS now with the settings I have come up with. Turning off ASW with the Oculus Tray Tool is an absolute must. While other VR games need that. DCS apparently hates it. ASW adds frames where it isn't needed causing that nasty ghosting or judder or whatever you want to call it.

 

What I also found is absolutely disabling ALL anti-aliasing in the sim and forcing it through the Nvidia Control Panel works best for me. I get a great mix of quality/fps. Currently, I get 60 on the ground (30 per eye) and 90 in the air (45 per eye). This is with every DCS setting turned to maximum including the sliders. and a PD of 2.0

+1 on disabling ASW, I do as well with the OTT and a profile for DCS. Only way to go imho.

AFAIK setting AA in Nvidia Control Panel has no effect for VR.

I run PD of 1.5 and 2x MSAA in the game.

What is ASW and how do you adjust it, or make sure its on

Probably going to kick myself when I hear the answer

I am still getting the "jitters" and its unnerving. Stuttering as I move my head around the cockpit. I had nvidia control AA and no effect. MSAA set to off as well.

What is ASW and how do you adjust it, or make sure its on

Probably going to kick myself when I hear the answer

ASW is Asynchronous Space Warp for the Oculus Rift. It helps lower spec systems run the Rift with a smooth experience.

The Rift is designed to run at 90 hz, ie 90 fps. That is best case and most fluid. If it drops much below 90, ASW will automatically kick in and run your frame rate at 45 fps. It interleaves projected frames in between each real frame to give an end result of 90 fps. Basically it makes predictions on where every other frame will be.

Now this is really good for some games, and for some not so great. In combat flight sims, ASW being active can cause planes to ghost as they fly by you, and oftentimes the gunsight if equipped will be all squiggly lines.

Now to disable it and try without, you can disable it in the Oculus Debug Tool.

Alternatively you can disable it on the fly with the below key combinations:

CTRL+Numpad1: Disable ASW, go back to the original ATW mode

CTRL+Numpad2: Force apps to 45Hz, ASW disabled

CTRL+Numpad3: Force apps to 45Hz, ASW enabled

CTRL+Numpad4: Enable auto-ASW (default, use this first)

Thirdly, you can disable it with the Oculus Tray Tool.

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/47247/oculus-traytool-supersampling-profiles-hmd-disconnect-fixes-hopefully/p1

I personally like and use the Oculus Tray Tool with a profile set for my games, and I run DCS with ASW off. I find as long as I can maintain at least 45 fps or better, it is very smooth and fluid for me even with ASW off. I just have to tweak my settings to hopefully keep it from dropping much below 45fps or else it gets stutter.

I encourage anyone with a Rift to try it both ways, with ASW on and with it disabled, to see what you like best for your setup.

Hope this helps,

WOW! Awesome info. I'm trying it right now Thanks

That helped. Still get a few stutters. Is that normal?

That helped. Still get a few stutters. Is that normal?

Stutters in DCS?

I know some over on the Oculus forums are reporting stutters in the new Oculus Home with the latest version, but not so much in games.

If in game turn your fps counter on , and see what it is reading when you see the stutters.

I believe the key combo for the fps counter is left ctrl+pause.

That helped. Still get a few stutters. Is that normal?

I think you're on the lower end of the HW recommended for VR. So I would not be too surprised you may be having stutter. But, just to make sure, you are using DCS on an SSD? And just for kicks, try muting your microphone. The computer one and the one on the Rift.

You can also try deleted in the shaders, but we can take it one step at a time.

I think we have a couple threads going here for same guy.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3540646#post3540646

The above should be the latest info.

Wow, never thought of looking at the SOUND end of this. I am using 2 SSD drives (500GB ea) Yeah dburn, I had posted questions thinking I was in another forum or vice versa. Apologies.

I think it may be a Windows thing. Others have seen stutter disappear by muting. What I saw (unrelated to DCS) was that i started getting high CPU out of nowhere. And the program I was using started getting laggy. The top CPU hog was SAPISRV.EXE. Used for speech recognition, apparently. It's easy enough to test.