F-15E crashed in Afghanistan

USAF F-15E crashed in Afghanistan. Two pilots died.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

This years is worse and worse for aviation...

:(

RIP

How come they didn't have time to eject? Were they flying low?

RIP

As always , sad news. I do not think this year is worst that any other for aviation, we just notice more this year. I remember 1998 and 1999 was very bad for F-16 (about 9 to 12 crashes if I remember correctly). Aircraft crashes, all-tho unfortunate and saddening, happen very often. Maybe one day we all will learn better way to prevent them or, at least , diminish them. Best wishes to their families and condolences.

Although it`s not acknoledged officially the possibility that it has been shot down should not be excluded.

Quote: "Militants are able to shoot down helicopters with rockets, but are not known to have the anti-aircraft weaponry necessary to bring down a high-flying jet."

Edit: "not known" doesn`t mean they don`t have such weapons. And if it was "high-flying" why the pilots didn`t eject? IMHO in the current situation in Afganistan it won`t be very beneficial to admit the insurgents have the ability to shoot down military planes...

RIP

Despite all these bad aviation news, flying still remains the safest way to travel. We just don't hear about the Hundreds and hundreds of car accidents a day.

In addition, as the economy worsens, many airplanes (including military jets) don't get their regular check up/maintenance. I know Southwest Airlines has been skipping out quite a lot to save on costs.

Topol, if they say it wasn't shot down, it probably wasn't.

There are many reasons to not eject - one of them is disorientation. In one case an F-15D (or E?) was destroyed in red flag after entering into a spin accidentally. The pilot tried to recover, and decided to eject rather late because he was disoriented. He died, but hit back-seater survived.

However, the situation does have to appear threatening to cause disorientation: It is well known that a pilot may experience disorientation in a relatively gentle 45 deg bank and spiral down while thinking he is flying straight. This is a very, very real danger of flying.

Although it`s not acknoledged officially the possibility that it has been shot down should not be excluded.

Quote: "Militants are able to shoot down helicopters with rockets, but are not known to have the anti-aircraft weaponry necessary to bring down a high-flying jet."

Edit: "not known" doesn`t mean they don`t have such weapons. And if it was "high-flying" why the pilots didn`t eject? IMHO in the current situation in Afganistan it won`t be very beneficial to admit the insurgents have the ability to shoot down military planes...

Topol, if they say it wasn't shot down, it probably wasn't.

 

There are many reasons to not eject - one of them is disorientation. In one case an F-15D (or E?) was destroyed in red flag after entering into a spin accidentally. The pilot tried to recover, and decided to eject rather late because he was disoriented. He died, but hit back-seater survived.

 

However, the situation does have to appear threatening to cause disorientation: It is well known that a pilot may experience disorientation in a relatively gentle 45 deg bank and spiral down while thinking he is flying straight. This is a very, very real danger of flying.

You may be right i don`t deny the possibility of the incident been caused by mechanical failure or disorientation or both as it happens all the time, i just don`t unconditionaly trust the military guys. They lie as hell especially when their authority is at stake or they have to cover their mistakes... So such little details as "not known" or "high flying but no ejection", etc. are rising a reasonable doubt in me about the truth in the official versions in similar situations. Oh well, maybe i`m too suspicious :smilewink:

Yeah, I think you are just a little too suspicious in this case. ;)

Keep in mind that the USAF keeps records of all accidents and crashes, as well as events like G-LOC, maintenance issues, per plane and for the entire force. They later analyze them to figure out if they are doing better than they have last year for a variety of things - so it really doesn't benefit them much to lie about this.

Any idea for what kind of missions is the F-15E asigned in Afganistan?

Armed forces are like politicians... they both lie to never show their mistake or weakness and will only admit after they are caught and proven otherwise.. this is the same worldwide and it's always been like that. Not saying true or not just saying I would not take their every word as complete truth..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090714/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

By FISNIK ABRASHI, Associated Press Writer – Tue Jul 14, 5:13 pm ET

 

A civilian helicopter ferrying humanitarian aid was shot down Tuesday in a southern Afghan province where fighting with the Taliban is raging, killing all six Ukrainian crew members and a child on the ground, officials said. Two U.S. Marines and an Italian soldier died in the latest clashes.

[…]

NATO officials in Kabul said the cause of the crash was under investigation and gave no further details.

 

But the civil aviation authority of the former Soviet republic of Moldova said a rocket or a missile struck the Mi-26 helicopter, owned by the Moldovan air charter company Pecotox-Airi and carrying six Ukrainians. The helicopter was ferrying humanitarian aid when the crash took place, the Moldovans said in a statement.

Is the MANPADS can't shot down the fighter plane?

R.I.P :(

Precision strike and CAS. Typically dropping heavy exploding things from high altitudes under the guidance of a laser.

On some occasions I've heard of them using multiple Mk-84's though, which might necessitate a lower altitude attack.

Any idea for what kind of missions is the F-15E asigned in Afganistan?

It can, but the plane has to be flying at a low enough altitude. It is possible, but unlikely that an F-15E was doing a low altitude mission. It is also unlikely for someone who is not a trainer soldier expecting a 500kt jet pass to lay MANPAD fire onto it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090714/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

 

Is the MANPADS can't shot down the fighter plane?

RIP.

In addition, as the economy worsens, many airplanes (including military jets) don't get their regular check up/maintenance. I know Southwest Airlines has been skipping out quite a lot to save on costs.

We do not work like that. It could be a maintainer being complacent, but the USAF always performs all regulation checks. If we do not have the money for parts or fuel, we do not fly. But inspections will never be neglected. Now, keep it mind, it could still be a mechanical failure or a specific maintainer neglected his duties, but IF some one did neglect his/hers job that person is going to Jail for long time to make big rocks into little rocks. It could have also been the terrain, Afghanistan is a very mountainous area. Maybe he was coming in for a "strafe" run.

Sorry guys, I do not mean to lessen the importance of this pilots death, I just commenting on the crash. Do not mean to offend.

Im in the CA National Guard and even with our state funds problems we do not miss a single Maintenance check and even more so in combat.. My unit was in Iraq and never lost a helicopter because of missing regular maintenance. We are now upgrading our Black hawks for our deployment to Afghanistan and even a smudge in the maintenance log is getting a call back from our TIs asking for clarification on the suspect task.

They must have been close to the ground or shot down to not be able to eject or if they did eject something else went wrong.. Aircraft can be replaced but the talent the pilots gain over years of training is something we never get back not to mention the men themselves...

Yeah, I think you are just a little too suspicious in this case. ;)

 

Keep in mind that the USAF keeps records of all accidents and crashes, as well as events like G-LOC, maintenance issues, per plane and for the entire force. They later analyze them to figure out if they are doing better than they have last year for a variety of things - so it really doesn't benefit them much to lie about this.

Yeah... let me just remind you of "engine trouble" ;) They might keep detailed records, but the real ones don't always get published.

to me sounds like low level flying accident.

if they where flying high they would have time to bail out.

may have been dust choked inside the inlets.

sudden loss of power. sand storms can whip up over there, and are leathal to air units.

I just wanted to reply regarding the "not known" and "high flying" portions of the article. Both of those statements are not from the military, but from the news outlet. The military did not report the altitude of this particular aircraft at the time. It could have been low or high, it has not yet been said which. I'm pretty sure the crash occurred during darkness, although I have not yet verified that information. Also, the press may not know about the types of anti aircraft capabilities the militants have, but you can bet the military knows quite a bit. I see reports all the time of exact types of weapons that are suspected in various locations throughout the country, who has them, where they came from, and how they are being used.

As far as not being able to bail out, I can think of many reasons why the crew would not be able to bail out even from high altitude, but we have yet to get any real info, so who knows.

As far as not being able to bail out, I can think of many reasons why the crew would not be able to bail out even from high altitude, but we have yet to get any real info, so who knows.

Aside from the pilot being unconscious, injured or dead, could you give me those reasons? I'm really curious.

Spacial Disorientation. You can be going down and not know it.

Aside from the pilot being unconscious, injured or dead, could you give me those reasons? I'm really curious.