DCS and Pimax

Something about needing high PD for it to look good. Not clear why the flight sims would need that, but the auto sims not so much.

On a basic mission, too. Load up one of the major MP servers and he'd be lucky to get FPS above the teens.

Reading more and more that the 5k+ is the way to go especially for simulations. The 8k has less SDE but it is a bit blurry (assumed due to the upscaler). The 5k+ runs at native resolution which makes it clearer.

I might just be switching to the 5K+.

From:

Introduction

 

 

• "Are these the next gen devices that we enthusiasts have been waiting for and will catapult the VR industry to the next level? The answer is a resounding YES!"
  
• "The true second generation of VR headsets with wide FOV has finally arrived."
  
• He admits the Pimax headsets are not perfect, but the pros outweigh the cons
  
• "There is no question at all, for VR enthusiasts who want the highest immersion possible right now, these are the headsets to go for"
  

Display

 

 

• IPD adjustment: he says is 60-73mm
  
• FOV Settings: Pimax software allows you to adjust FOV to 3 settings. He measured them to be horizontically 170 degrees (Large setting), 155 degrees (Normal setting) and 125 degrees (Small setting)
  
• Small FOV setting (125 degrees) is still bigger than what we are used to from Vive/Rift
  
• Distortion: he says early version had bad distortion in the whole view in addition to distortion in the edges. He initially had very little hope for the project because of the distortion, but Pimax was able to fix it with software distortion profiles. There is still distortion at the edges, but can use normal FOV and it is gone. Normal FOV is still much larger than anything else out now and he is happy using it.
  
• Once you go high FOV you can't go back.
  
• Resolution/SDE comparison: See video at
  He compares between Pimax, Vive, Vive Pro, Rift and he shows it pretty well. Overall 8K has least SDE but image is less sharp (I think it looks smoothed which maybe some might prefer). 5K+ has more SDE but everything seems to be sharp and clear. Both are better overall than all others. They both use RGB stripe for pixel substructure which helps with SDE.
  
• Black levels: See video at
  He compares black levels in E:D. It is very clear that Vive Pro is better with black levels due to OLED screen. Pimax may allow adjusting LCD backlight level through software in the future to help with this. He says it is still acceptable level and not a deal-breaker.
  
• 5K+ vs 8K: See video at
  He recommends 5K+ due to picture clarity. At same settings 5K+ is also easier to read text in. Again, from comparison images 8K has less SDE but everything is a bit blurry and has a smoothed out look, while image in 5K+ is sharp and clear while at the same time, its SDE pattern is easier to see than 8K.
  
• Godrays: See video at
  He compares Pimax/Vive Pro/Rift Godrays. Rift is clearly worst. Vive still has a lot. Pimax still has some, but is clearly the best.
  

Performance

 

 

• Performance: Short version is "you at least want to have a GTX 1080ti" for both 5K+ and 8K. Performance is identical between the two. Below is framerates using Pimax 5K+, Pitool quality setting 1.0 and SteamVR Super Sampling 100%
  
• 1070 fps: Budget Cuts 60 fps, Rec Room 55 fps, Skyrim 32 fps(!), Elite Dangerous 27 fps(!!), Project Cars 2: 26 fps, Raw Data: 21 fps(??), SteamVR Home 63 fps, Job Simulator 73 fps
  
• 1080ti fps: Budget Cuts 90 fps, Rec Room 73 fps, Skyrim 80 fps, Elite Dangerous 45 fps(!), Project Cars 2: 45 fps, Raw Data: 75 fps
  
• "Interesting part is there is still room for improvement [when better graphics cards come out]" "Games with Pitool quality setting at 2.0 look gorgeous but with a 1080ti it still won't run smoothly."
  
• "The devices are already a joy with 1080ti but will probably get better and better with each new GPU generation"
  
• 90hz vs 80hz: No difference can be seen unless you are superhuman. (5K+ is 90hz but he measured it to actually be 91hz, while 8K is 80hz)
  
• At same settings 5K+ will look better than 8K. You could increase SS for 8K, but that will require even more GPU power.
  
• He does not think faster future graphics cards will be able to make 8K look better than 5K+ because they have same input signal.
  
• Wait for 8K X if you really want best quality since the 4K displays in 8K X will be driven at their native resolution.
  

Comfort

 

 

• Weight: It is very light, lighter than it looks
  
• Comfort: is at same level or maybe a bit better than original Vive with its original headstrap
  
• Nose space: Ample space for nose
  
• Glasses: Large glasses fit better than previous headsets but they will be very close to lens
  

Other Stuff

 

 

• Microphone: Good enough for live streaming and talking to other players. No popping noise. Volume a bit low, can adjust manually, no problem.
  
• Game Compatibility: Most games work out of the box which he says is quite surprising. Some tweaking in Pitools may be needed for some games though.
  
• Oculus Games Compatibility: Can play Oculus games out of the box without needing Revive. It works surprisingly well.
  
• "Playing Oculus games like Robo Recall and Lone Echo with a huge FOV and much improved resolution over the Rift is just a true joy. I'm personally playing those incredible titles again just because they look so much better"
  
• He says with wider FOV you may need to grow VR legs again because games with free locomotion might make you sick. He usually loves playing with free locomotion, but with Pimax with its wide FOV he had to get used to playing with free locomotion all over again.
  

Conclusion

 

 

• "The increased FOV is a true game changer. After using the Pimax for a while there's absolutely no going back to the current generation low FOV headsets. "
  
• "You will easily get used to this increased immersion"
  
• "If you go back to Rift/Vive you will question yourself, How could you have ever enjoyed this prehistoric low FOVs"
  
• If you come from Samsung Odyssey or Vive Pro you should not expect huge improvements in terms of clarity or resolution. Clarity and SDE is only slightly better in Pimax. However the fact that it is better throughout the whole bigger FOV is quite the achievement.
  
• Next leap in visual quality will be 8K X if you want to wait for it.
  
• If you want the headsets with the highest immersion possible that are available NOW, then you should go for Pimax 5K+/8K
  
• Again 5K+ vs 8K, choose 5K+
  

END

Reading more and more that the 5k+ is the way to go especially for simulations. The 8k has less SDE but it is a bit blurry (assumed due to the upscaler). The 5k+ runs at native resolution which makes it clearer.

 

 

I might just be switching to the 5K+.

 

 

From:

I'm debating this myself. I wish I could see it for myself. Damn.

Not sure why Sweviver was using 2.0 PD. Was he using the full FOV or the reduced FOV?

4 things that might improve performance that I can think of:

1) Reducing PD

2) Kegetys VR mod

3) VulKan

4) Pimax's mysterious 'Brainwarp' tech

Regardless, your going to need a beefy GPU to drive this thing.

If you look at the video below, you can see that he was using Normal FoV (not large), in game supersampling of 1.6 to 2

Wait for eye tracking modul. Coming next year. I hope for more performenc

Wait for eye tracking modul. Coming next year. I hope for more performenc

But us 8K backers have an option to get the 5K+ and use the remainder for other accessories. So the decision needs to be made within the next two weeks or so (if it does start shipping at the end of the month).

After watching the review below, I think I'll stick with the 8K, although I may have to crank the rendering to 1.5. I'm hoping the 2080Ti will compensate. But 5K+ definitely has more clarity. The video below is worth watching from 1 hour in. Quite informative.

Sweviver basically said dcs isn’t enjoyable cause of the fps, unfortunate, hopefully ED has some performance tweaks around the corner

... also, just to add, this is without ASW. Similar was with Samsung Odyssey before ASW start working.

Pimax ASW equivalent called Brainwarp is still not in function so have that in mind. This could be fixed soon, even before the official release market in Q1 2019.

There is one more thing if we compare performance Vive PRO/Odyssey and Pimax5K/8K there is not much of the difference in hardware consumption.

One other other important aspects that, with all my respect to Swevivers work, he is not dedicated DCS player and start to play it on community request more than on his personal preferences.

Simply he just didn't have experience and time to go diapering exploring and find a best possible set up wherein DCS every frame is important because it is on edge.

More details about Pimax8K I'm expecting from real dedicated DCS players and we have here on forums few backers who just wait to receive their HMD.

The only question is which to chose 5K who offer more clarity with more for better instruments and HUD reading but with higher SDE or 8K for better target spotting in distance and lower SDE.

We will see soon.

Dear all,

 

While it's too early to know exactly what will come from it, we are in touch with Pimax regarding their 8K system and how we can best cooperate for an amazing DCS VR experience.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Matt, Nine Line,

If you're still reading this topic, would you consider to make a statement in the following month about how it went with the Pimax guys ? Do you think we could get better performances with high end computers ? I know VR users must be a small part of your customer base but I think this part of the community is growing steadily. Some words from your team would be much appreciated, thanks))

Yes, feedback is good. I think VR is the part of the market that will win DCS new customers. By all accounts it looks like Pimax has pulled off the next gen VR headset.

Sadly, it looks like i will be stuck with a G-14 and a sip of MW for the time beeing.

But us 8K backers have an option to get the 5K+ and use the remainder for other accessories. So the decision needs to be made within the next two weeks or so (if it does start shipping at the end of the month).

 

 

After watching the review below, I think I'll stick with the 8K, although I may have to crank the rendering to 1.5. I'm hoping the 2080Ti will compensate. But 5K+ definitely has more clarity. The video below is worth watching from 1 hour in. Quite informative.

 

 

 

There is one more thing to take in consideration. Real 4K resolution per eye as native res on 60Hz.

This will increase clarity on 8K as native resolution works best for displays and need less SS. So 8K could reach even better clarity and 60Hz will not be a problem in DCS.

Pimax4K shows that. He didn't have the problem with 60Hz, the problem was input lag which creates ghosting and that was a major problem on Pimax4K model.

With Brain warp, even 30FPS will be playable in that case.

From what i hear from this review currently the 5k+ has a better looking image/clarity than the 8k version. might change with later panels though. Its all really really promising

Edit:

I see its mentioned earler too. Ill probably go with the 5k

Vulcan as a miracle solution?

I don't know. In essence, not much increase but the question here is SLI/CF.

Vulcan announced better SLI/CF performance and utilization especially for VR where will be possible usage GPU per eye.

Question is is this done by Vulcan automatically or should be implemented in any game separately by game developers.

Anyway DCS and its hardware hunger needs proper SLI/CF support no matter on VR. This will open proper VR and 4K performances bust.

But this is another theme to discuss.

Should I save some bucks, for the Pimax, guys ?

:)

I wonder why Sweviver needed to turn up pixel-density so far for a good image?

Could it be that PD in DCS is set to Vive/Rift native resolution at the 1.0 setting, and that 1.0 on the Pimax means that it's effectively downsampled? So you would need to dial it up to get to the 5k's native?

I'm debating this myself. I wish I could see it for myself. Damn.

Reading more and more that the 5k+ is the way to go especially for simulations. The 8k has less SDE but it is a bit blurry (assumed due to the upscaler). The 5k+ runs at native resolution which makes it clearer.

 

 

I might just be switching to the 5K+.

 

 

From:

I'm probably going to switch to the 5k+ too ....

I said *and* Vulcan. It’s supposed to aid in implementing multi-core use, which sims like this are currently lacking.

People keep hoping for SLI/CF, but gaming houses don’t seem interested in that, at all, and VR use hasn’t changed that.

Here's a comparison shot I found, someone else posted, so that you can see the difference in the image quality and SDE.

Is it true the pimax is shipping with no asynchronous reprojection? If so I will definitely be giving it a miss. There’s no way I could use dcs or my other go to sim without the equivalent of ASW. It’s going to be a juddering mess given the low frame rates.

Here's a comparison shot I found, someone else posted, so that you can see the difference in the image quality and SDE.

Thanks for posting. 5k+ seems to be a definite winner based on this.

I wonder what pixel density setting was used.

Once the kickstarter orders have been fulfilled will these be available for everyone else on a large scale?

Is it true the pimax is shipping with no asynchronous reprojection? If so I will definitely be giving it a miss. There’s no way I could use dcs or my other go to sim without the equivalent of ASW. It’s going to be a juddering mess given the low frame rates.

Shipping to kickstarter backers, yes. It's entirely possible that Pimax's proprietary ASW "brainwarp" will be released by the time the headset is commercially available.

Once the kickstarter orders have been fulfilled will these be available for everyone else on a large scale?

That's the plan.

Thanks for posting. 5k+ seems to be a definite winner based on this.

 

I wonder what pixel density setting was used.

There's a discussion on reddit covering this and most believe optimizations need to take place for the 8k to truly have a better image with upscaling. ATM the 5k+ is the better option.

Once the kickstarter orders have been fulfilled will these be available for everyone else on a large scale?

Yes.

After listening to the latest reviews, I am unclear how you will launch DCS (non Steam), it looks like it has to be either a Oculus or Steam VR game to launch from the PITools software that goes with the headset. Anyone hear/know about DCS being used (non Steam) with PIMAX?